www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Restore Hagia Sophia

Ever since the Muslims overran the last of the Roman Empire in 1453 Turkey has treated the most magnificent house of God in the world as its possession and has robbed the Christian world of this house of worship. Hagia Sophia has been used as a mosque and a museum ever since. Now, Turkey wishes to join the European Union. I don't believe they should be allowed to until they restore Hagia Sophia to the Christian world. Many others believe the same. I've signed a petition to that end. Here is a website to show you how you may do the same.

http://www.hagiasophiablog.com/mainpage.html

Carson Daniel Lauffer

Dan I think we did this one a few months ago. Dr. Eric brought this I believe started this one off last time.

Pavel,

Thanks. I thought that to be the case but wasn't sure. Perhaps there are some new readers who haven't seen this.

CDL

Aye, although this is a bit off topic, but related, I hope our Holy Father will consider returning all the religious items from the sack of Constantinople to our Orthodox brethren.

There's a list somewhere on the web of everything the Orthodox feel is theirs--give all of it back, every last little icon. Consider it a goodwill gesture on the road to reunion.

How about just taking away the Muslim government in Turkey period? (assuming they have one)

Of course, that may not be received very well...

I am assuming the Orthodox will do likewise.

Talking about Turkey, the following is from:

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_world_4952727_12/08/2006_73095

S/E EUROPE

Turkey pledges EU reform
ANKARA (AP) - Turkey promised visiting Finnish Foreign Minister Erkki Tuomioja late on Thursday that it was determined to make the necessary reforms required to join the European Union, the semi-official Anatolia news agency reported yesterday.

Finland holds the six-month rotating EU presidency and has said that the European Union could suspend entry talks with Turkey during its presidency if Ankara fails to meet the bloc�s accession requirements.

�We were able to explain how important the EU issue is for us and the steps that we have taken to keep the process moving,� Anatolia quoted Foreign Ministry spokesman Namik Tan as saying in a statement after a two-hour meeting between Tuomioja and his Turkish counterpart, Abdullah Gul.

Talks at risk

The Finnish foreign minister, however, has said that unless Turkey recognizes European Union member Cyprus by the end of the year, its entry talks - which have barely begun in earnest - will be suspended.

It appeared that there was little progress on this issue during the meeting of the foreign ministers.

�We stressed in our meeting that the Cyprus issue should be independent� of the EU process, the state-owned Anatolia quoted the Turkish foreign ministry spokesman as saying.

Turkey has so far balked at implementing an agreement to expand a customs union with Cyprus, which would imply recognition of the Greek Cypriot-led government of Cyprus.

Turkey has also balked at Christianity being mentioned in the EU constitution, and as being a basis for European civilization. Well she got her way on that one, so let's see. :rolleyes:

Well, talking about turkey's, we have an awful lot of wild one's around here. Where did Turkey ever get that name from? Could it be from the red caps the Turks wear? In Greece, on the other hand, they are called gallo, (Gaul), or gallopoula. Now that could mean a Frenchman, French bird, or a milky white one...or so I think? I better ask a Greek.

Zenovia

Dear Chance you said:

I say:

Not too smart an idea! Turkey will not allow anything to leave it's territory. That is one of the reasons the Patriarchate is still in Istanbul. Better the religious items remain at the Vatican where they have been safe for so many years.

Zenovia

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Dear Nathan you said:

I say:

The Turkish government is 'supposedly' a secular democracy. In reality it is controlled by it's military, which makes it a military democracy...whatever that is?

Zenovia

CDL:

Great topic, thanks for bringing it back!

Build a new Hagia Sopia not in Cleveland or Pittsburgh, but in the hinterlands, Chicago on Lake Michigan.

All the best,
Scott

Zenovia you wrote:

Don't quibble over the details. I'm sure there's a some nice safe spot for the items the Orthodox consider stolen property somewhere on God's green Earth besides the Vatician.

And don't start anyone start lecturing me about the Ukrainian Catholic property shanghai'ed by the Orthodox. Someone has to make the first gesture of real, lasting impact and this is as good or better than most.

That's pretty cavalier, Chance. You seem surprisingly willing to give away someone else's sweat and sacrifice equity without a qualm. One wonders whether you'd be as equable about giving away your own.

Why is the Vatican museum being singled out Chance? The Papal States did not attack Constantinople. However, other countries in the Italian penninsular area certainly did. Even if they did have all the loot, why hand this over to the Turks now. The EP has no legal status and the way things are going are enduring one long strangulation, so there will not be many left of the few thousand souls soon. Zenovia is right in my view.

And why not? You certainly are lecturing us. And yes, the Orthodox were less than Christian in taking Catholic property. However, Zenovia is right. Nothing is safe in Istanbul. When the Turks smoke out the last Orthodox Christian in Turkey, who knows where the holy things will end up. Is there a Turkish form of ebay? It seems to me that gestures of good will are often made by the Vatican to the Orthodox. Has anyone seen anything of substance coming back to the west?

Yes good diversion there from from Hagia Sophia to the tit for tats in Ukraine. I bet someone has uttered those words before, probably after the Orthodox Churches were seized by Polish and Hungarian civil authorities from the Orthodox. What goes around comes around. The realy clever bit will be sorting this mess out, instead of simply repeating it over and over.