www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Cross question

On one of my trips to Ukraine last year (specifically: Kamianets'-Podil'skyi) I purchased a 3-bar pectoral cross, sans chain, from a street merchant.

I am now trying to ascertain if it is a genuine 1896 Nicholas II cross. The design is correct and it shows signs of wear. It is made of either copper or bronze (not sure) and bears two stamps at the bottom of the back. The first one, in a rectangular box, contains the letters BA. The other stamp, two lines in an oval depression, is more difficult to read. The first line contains 5 characters, possibly б**АЛ. I'm pretty sure about the 'stars' but the first character is a stab in the dark. The last two characters could each possibly be А, Л and/or Д - I just can't tell, even under x8 magnification. The second line of this mark reads: 1896.

I'd be most grateful if anyone could confirm or correct my reading of these two marks and let me know if this is 'the real thing'.

Σώσον, Κύριε, καί διαφύλαξον η�άς από τών Βασιλιάνικων τάξεων!

That certainly sounds like the real deal. It is most probably bronze and not copper.

Is there a "double-headed eagle" on it?

If there is, it's THE REAL DEAL....

If not, it's 50/50....

I hope it's the REAL DEAL....

mark

Dear Andriju,

Are you going to wear it?

A priest once told me the laity can wear such crosses under their clothing . . .

Alex

The front looks like this (but not as shiny):
[Linked Image] I took some pictures of my cross - I must see if I can find them (and if the picture of the back is clear enough).

The back has, at the very top, a simple Greek cross, then a quote from 1 Timothy, "Obraz budi virnym ...". Beneath that is the royal cipher, including crown. Below that is 'lita 1896 maia 14 dnia'. No double-headed eagle.

Σώσον, Κύριε, καί διαφύλαξον η�άς από τών Βασιλιάνικων τάξεων!

Alex,

I already have a nice silver Old Believer style neck cross (which sets off some metal detectors at airports!). That one more than suits my needs. I'm sure the one being discussed here would set off *every* metal detector! The cross will be displayed, in some fashion, in my prayer corner once my 'investigation' is complete.

Σώσον, Κύριε, καί διαφύλαξον η�άς από τών Βασιλιάνικων τάξεων!

Dear Andriju,

That certainly is the Cross issued by Tsar St Nicholas II!

You should wear it . . .

You are not a Tsar, but you are a Star!

Alex

I thought that all those Tsar Nicholas II crosses were cast in silver?

*shrugs* Musta' been mistaken; it's known to happen on occasion.

Dave

With the crown, this is 99.95% original!

Congrats and way to go!

mark

Not to burst anyone's bubble, but if the cross was purchased from a street vendor it is highly unlikely that it is an original cast of the Czar. As with the case with coins, shrewed individuals (and some companies) have been known to make die casts of collectors' items such as crosses, jewelry, etc. Using an original, a cast is made, and copies are then manufactured. Wear and aging can be effected through various types of chemicals. Hopefully, you did not pay a Czar's ransom for the pectoral cross.

Deacon John,

I am well aware of the possibility of the cross being a copy - that is why I am trying to identify the two stamps on the back of the cross.

Even without a favourable exchange rate the price would not have been close to "a Czar's ransom". Even if it turns out to be a copy I will not be disappointed. Authenicating it will be the difference between the purchase being a 'deal' and a 'steal' (so to speak).

Σώσον, Κύριε, καί διαφύλαξον η�άς από τών Βασιλιάνικων τάξεων!

Perhaps you can find the hallmarks (that's what they are called) here [silvercollection.it] . If not, maybe try a library for a better catalog of Russian silver(smith) hallmarks.

Of course, they could be forgery as well.

Dear Andriju,

Many, many years ago, I bought a bronze tryptych from a street vendor in Istanbul. Now it was not what I wanted to buy, but the street vendor kept insisting that it was the real deal.

The price was the same as the fake I was looking at, so I took him at his word...after all, there was no reason not to. Well, it became the butt of jokes...how I was fooled by a street vendor.

Well, to prove my case, I took it to the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Even 'she' refused to look at it when I said I bought it from a street vendor. So in order to get the appointment, I brought another Russian icon with me.

Of course the tryptych was real, there was no reason for it not to be. It turned out to be early 19th century.

Zenovia

SLAVA ISUSU CHRISTU!

It's amazing what one can purchase from "street vendors".

I bought a "hand cross" from one such "street vendor" at our local Ukrainian Festival. The man was from Uzhorod and had a GORGEOUS handcarved cross inlaid with brass finishing nails.

He wanted $5 for it. I gave him $40 and left before he could protest.

He had been here for the summer with relatives and was trying to make money to take home with him.

When I took the cross to the Otpust at Mt.Macrina to be blessed, I had no less than 5 priests ask me where I got and would they mind if they walked me to my car....

Yes, I still have the cross right next to a GORGEOUS early 19th century ikon of St. Nikolas that I also bought from a "street vendor"

mark

It is very likely that you have a copy. I possess an excellent copy, that has the corresponding mint marks on the reverse side. It is most likely one of those. The detail when compared to an original is noticeable, but only on a side by side comparison.

As for a layman wearing one. A layman may wear any cross, just as long as it is not done to give anyone the idea you are priest. In other words under your shirt should be fine, but it may be unconfortable. The one I pocessed and wore as a priest for years was quite heavy. Now that I am awarded the right to wear a decorative cross, the old silver one sits on my icon shelf.
I hope this helps.

Father Anthony+