www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Greek Orthodox Church in Jerusalem fires Patriarch Irineos I

Because we have lost our most precious!

We are more worried about "to whom belongs this piece of land, and to whom did God create that miracle" that we forgot about the most precious.

I was an outsider I would laugh my guts out at the "Byzantine Christians." As an insider my heart is sad and full of grief.

How many of you guys were really, but really persecuted for being a Christian? I mean having a group of people attacking you, your family, destroying all you have and are most likely to kill you because YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN? You have no one you can trust - the police, the army - NO ONE WILL HELP YOU but one - God almighty.
Then brothers, then you will not care what rite you follow - you will NOT say I am an Orthodox, I am a Catholic, I'm Latin - because you know that no one cares, even the LORD doesn't care. You are a CHRISTINE.

I am starting to fear terms widely, used in this forum, such as "Orthodox Christian" to distinguish Christians (and not rites like it should mean) - and I fiercely reject to terms such as "Orthodox lands" and "Latin Land".

EXCUSE ME - ORTHODOXY NEVER WAS A NATIONALITY NOR WAS IT POLITICAL. THERE WAS NEVER A COUNTRY CALLED �ORTHODOX LAND� NOR WAS THERE EVER A NATION CALLED �ORTHODOXES.�*

There is only one kind of believer of Christ - and he is called a CHRISTIAN. Christians have many rites; every person chooses the rite that most concern his faith and way of life. Separating and distinguishing Christians by their rites is working against the will of God, because it is the scattering of the folk of Christ.

I am so sick and so full of having people thinking the Christians here have a problem with Greek Priests or others. We, Christians of the Holy Land, have a problem with people who betray us, their own flesh and blood, their own sheep, and the ones they should protect, so they can keep sitting on the throne of glory.
WE HAVE NO PROBLEM AT ALL WITH GREEK/RUSSIAN/POLISH/ITALIAN/AMERICAN/ARMENIAN PRIEST. WE DO NOT CARE AND NEVER HAVE. JUST LIKE YOU WOULD NEVER SEE YOUR IRESH PRIEST IN ENGLAND AND DIFFERENTLY THAN AN ENGLSIH ONE � UNLESS YOU ARE A STRAY SHEEP.
Selling the lands of the Holy Church, done by an Arab or a Greek Priest alike, to the Jews of Muslims or any other group that works AGAINS the Church is called betrayal - look at it as you wish - helping the person who wishes to kill you is suicide.

How many of you were in the Holy Land? How many of you lived here for one month like a native?
I call you, come, I will give you a warm shelter and a warm heart, several prayers a day and three warm meals - PLEASE COME. You are speaking about my life here, my church,
and MY CHURCH is ONE - its is the Church of God and woe to those who wish to keep it scattered.

Yes the Christians of this land are frustrated and angry.
Yes the Christians of this land are sometimes rude, like me now.
Yes the Christians of this land are so sick of being treated like goats; manipulated by politics of passing governments and submitting Patriarchs.
WE DON'T WANT POLITICIANS IN OUR CHURCH WHO SUBMIT TO THE FOUL POLITICS OF THE GOVERNMENTS.
We need a Father to give us a shoulder to cry on.
A Father who will give us a hug from time to time.
A Father who will give us advice when we go stray.
A Father who will pray on our graves when we shed our blood because we are Proud Christians for the Church and this Holy Place.
A Father, a Shepherd who will take his big stick and give that foul wolf a hit on that ugly face of his so that foul wolf may leave the sheep in peace.

And what do we get? We get someone who is willing to put his hand in the hand of those who persecute us, kills and take our sons and lands; a shepherd who lets the wolves scatter his sheep and kill them one by one.

And here you talk about it just like you speak about a polo game.
You break the Church to pieces by being fanatics of your own rites.
It seems to me that many here care more about their rite than they care about their Christ.
As a Christian, who is being hated, persecuted, hurt both physically and mentally I cannot afford this - I cannot afford loosing my Lord and my faith in ONE UNITED HOLY CHURCH.
For me there is no Orthodox land, No Latin Land.
For me there is no Orthodox oriented miracle and another for the Latin.
For me there is no an Arab priest and a Greek one.
Simply because I cannot afford this - if I loose this unity I will lose myself, we all will.

Loosing Lands of the Church in the Holy Land simply means loosing what is left of the divided Church, loosing our existence - but even though - we will never lose our faith.

Wake up Christians, Wake up!
Be jealous, be very jealous when it comes to your Church. When a dog bites your Child you will attack it and bite it back if necessary. Here are there dogs biting big pieces of your own Church, your home, the house of your Lord, the place where your Lord had his moments of joy, his long minutes of grief and fear. Where His blood covered the streets and washed our sins.

I pray to our righteous God, to tear down every major building we call a Church in this land I live. So the only way Christians, True Christians, will be able to rebuild the �Divided to small cells Churches so every rite will get a very small part of the Church� is to UNITE IT.

I�m sorry for being rude and aggressive.
I will proudly stand with my eyes looking to the Heavens smiling as the enemies of Christ in this Bloody Land take away from me all civil rights and hurt me in all ways possible because I proudly carry my cross with me.
My eyes will not tear and my heart will know not pain.

But - when my own brothers betray me with a kiss, I will certainly cry.

Sorry,
You brother in the Lord who lives in what they used to call the "Holy Land"

Photius:

Re-read your post:

Now, do you know how many apostolic Churches you have designated as "scavengers" versus the "miniscule" scandal the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate is in? (BTW, clearly you are not recognizing the other Orthodox Patriarchates in Jerusalem and in the Holy Land!)

On the Catholic side, we have the Melkite Patriarchate, the Maronite Patriarchate, the Latin Patriarchate, and, of course, the Franciscan Custos. The hierarchy and clergy of the 3-named Patriarchates are Arabic (Syrians, Lebanese, Palistinians, etc.), and the Franciscan Order is international in composition.

Whereas, the hierarchy and clergy of the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate is mostly, if not exclusively, Greek. And I think that's the main reason the Palistinian laity are acting up.

That's what I referred to as "hypocrisy!"

Amado

Brother Eli B,

A beautiful post that has put me at a loss for words.

I pray with you and for you.

Brad

Dear Eli,

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I recall writing some letters years ago stating that we will lose all the holy places in Jerusalem and Israel unless we unite. I couldn't help but believe that is why Pope John Paul II humbled himself to the Orthodox when he visited. Yet many continue to have blinders on.

As for the secular buildings and land, what do they matter other than the funds they bring in to help people in need of help.

Zenovia

Dear Eli,

Reading your first post I realize that the Palestinian Christians have a great attachment to their land. If it was given to the Church for protection from the Israelis, then it becomes a 'spite' measure towards those (Israelis) perceived as the latest persecutors of the Christians. (Of course I don't blame them). I say latest persecutors, since the Muslims did the same thing for centuries.

My fear for Christianity in that part of the world, as well as the rest of the world is because of the religious/political 'state' of Islam, which equates territorial expansion as part of it's philisophy. The gain of real estate is of the utmost importance to them. To them, losing land to any other religion is being a 'traitor' to their own.

We Christians on the other hand, do not have these political concepts, and for that reason it is always the Christians that will get up and leave a land, while the Muslims are expected to sacrifice themselves and their loved one for that religious/ political state of 'Islam'. The sufferings of the Moslem populace is considered their 'fate'.

Again I state that our only concern should be Christian unity. It is that unity that will protect our holy sites and evangelize that part of the world.

Zenovia

Shlomo Lkhoolkhoon,
Here are the latest headlines. Ouster for Orthodox patriarch of Jerusalem? [cwnews.com]

Jordan�s King Abdullah II is expected to confirm the removal of Ireneos I on Sunday, May 15, or Monday, May 16, AsiaNews reports. Under the terms of a 1994 peace treaty with Israel, Jordan retains control over the Christian shrines of Jerusalem.

Poosh BaShlomo Lkhoolkhoon,
Yuhannon

Tonight on EWTN's World Over Live: The state of Christianity in the Holy Land. It may well interest those who have participated in this thread.

Got you! All the best on your exams. D & T, huh. posh!

p.s. 'tis amazing the number of grads who find a job in areas other than the degree course they sat. Good on you and good on them! blessing, wg