www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Questions from a seeking protestant.

Practically next to door to St. Anne's is St. Andrew's, a Greek Orthodox church. The two churches seem to have very warm relations with one another. Some people attend Matins at the GO church and to St. Anne's for Divine Liturgy. What a neat opportunity!

We attended this morning. We were pleased by our welcome in spite of some embarrassing moments (we had trouble following the liturgy as the one we are accustomed to is not as formal and our youngest son, 2 and 1/2, snored while he slept through part of the service).

I have only one concern related to conversion: in the Western Church, RCIA ends at the Easter vigil. We would much prefer to be full communicant members before the new baby comes at the end of October.

Assuming we know Catholic doctrines adequately (salvation, the Sacraments, Ecclesiology, tradition etc.) do you think it would be possible?

(I'll meet with Fr. Idranyi some time this week, I'd just like to hear about the experience of other protestant converts if possible)

In Christ, Ryan

Hello Ryan,
My husband Matt is a student at Cal Poly SLO, and before we were married he was attending St. Andrew's, the GO Parish down the street from St. Anne's. My mom(Doulos) is right, people seem to float back and forth for the services. It's great to see how the Orthodox and Byz Catholics are working together down there.
I have a story that seems a bit like where you are going. I was raised non-denominational protestant. Then I met Matt who was raised(for the most part) Ukranian Catholic. He introduced me to the eastern church and after initial shock(what's with all the bowing?!)I fell in love with the UC tradition. I spent two or three years researching and praying and arguing with Matt. I was convinced at first that I had to try to "save" him. But then I started to really consider the church and what she had to teach me. It's been a rough ride(especially at 16, 17, 18 yrs old)but I finally came to rest in the Ukranian church on January 1, 2006. I've had my moments when I've wondered what I've gotten myself into; Matt says that my Protestantism shows at times. I do know that I love the traditions(most of them, others I'm still working on)of the Ukranian Catholic church and that my relationship with God has changed very much for the better and has been deepened by what I've learned in the last three years.
I know I sound dramatic, I haven't done much writing lately and my fingers are itchy...
just thought I'd share a similiar story, maybe there will be experiences or thoughts I can share to encourage you since I've just been through what you are now experiencing.
God Bless,
Sarah Gilbert

Hi Ryan,

Let me chip in as a Western Catholic with Eastern Christianity occupying the master bedroom in my heart.

Well, We believe there is One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

We understand that means Our Lord Jesus Christ intended us all to get along well with each other, believe what He taught us entirely and faithfully and that the differences we might have among us, we could resolve in love, compassion and mutual forgiveness.

OK, so that didn't happen, now what? Well, the word of Our Lord could not just pass away, so it has to be fulfilled somehow.

The Catholic Church believes that it is the Catholic Church where the fullness of this One, True Church subsists. That is, in the Catholic Church, all, absolutely all the constituent elements of the One, True Church have been and still are present.

However, that doesn't mean we are all we should be, and that doesn't mean that all who are not in full, visible communion with the Catholic Church are completely "out".

In one way, all men and women are connected, somehow, to the Catholic Church. We consider the Orthodox so close, that we recognize them as true particular churches with the fullness of the sacramental life, which is the very "stuff" of the Church.

Protestants are a little farther away, but we are still united by our common baptism, which is huge.

With Jews and Muslims, we share our faith in the God of Abraham.

With the rest of mankind, we still share the One call to salvation through Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Surely you and your precious family is somewhere in there, perhaps a lot closer than what you think.

Therefore, the expression "No salvation outside the Church" is a positive one: If one is to be saved, God's free gift of salvation incorporates the saved into the Church and acts through the means of grace entrusted to the Church, but since really nobody is COMPLETELY outside the Church, then at least the possibility of salvation is open to all, just as God intended it to be.

Yes, your doctrinal views might be objectively in error, but that is a problem we are not afraid to work with, because we know for sure it is one God's grace can heal completely.

Well, those are technical terms. It boils down to this:

Do you believe that the Eucharist is truly, really, the Body and Blood (and Soul and Divinity) of Our Lord Jesus Christ?

If so, do you believe that something that truly and really is the Body and Blood of Our Lord Jesus Chrust can be, at the same time, also something else (such as bread or wine)?

If you answered "Yes" to the first question and "No" to the second one, then you have a Catholic understanding of the Eucharist. Beyond that, call it whatever you want.


Now, concerning the timing of things, I understand your needs and desires.

Talk with your parish priest and consider very carefully what he recommends.

However, being an RCIA catechist myself, my advice is: Do not rush it.

Get to know the Church and her teachings before committing yourselves to believe them and live in accord with them.

Enjoy the journey, it is a blessing in itself. Many of our candidates and catechumens are at first a little concerned about our process taking up to two years, however, they unanimously agree, after the process, that that is the really the only way to go, that the big moment of grace of their baptism or reception into full communion would never have been what it was without the "pilgrimage" process.

Even if you decide to go for a Western parish, talk to the parish priest and explain to him your concern about your kids receiving Holy Communion. Rules are rules, yes, but Church rules are there to help people in their way to God, not to knock them off the way.

I can tell you that we've had the chance to enjoy the sacramental preparation of each of our children and now we are getting ready for the last leg of the last one of those. Yes, maybe if they'd been able to receive since they were infants would've been wonderful, but living our discipline with faith and joy is not half bad. Of course, your situation is different, because your children would have to actually stop receiving, that is why I'm recommending a talk with the parish priest to find the best possible solution.

Let me finish by telling you how deeply I admire those who have the ability to honestly question their beliefs and follow whatever path God's answer might point them to.

Receiving new members into the Church through this kind of process is a tremendous sign of hope, a precious gift from God to us all.

We will keep you and your family in our prayers.

Shalom,
Memo

Ryan,

Welcome!

As a former Protestant who is now (Roman) Catholic, I can relate to your journey. I have faith that God will lead you to where He wants you to go, and when He wants you to go. I think it is wonderful that you are exploring the Eastern Catholic Churches, and your desire to have your young children receive communion is quite commendable.

Regarding your question about the status of those who are not outward members of the Church, this article [chnetwork.org] I think is helpful. It does come from a very Western mindset, and it has a few minor problems, but all in all, it is very good for explaining the difference between "absolute necessity" and "normative necessity", and how that relates to one's status in relation to the Catholic Church.

Regarding the various doctrines related to the Eucharist, I think it is important to distinguish between various explanations for the same fundamental belief and different beliefs. At it's most basic, the catholic belief is that the bread and wine become the body and blood of Jesus. Period. Any explanation of what happens (not "how" it happens - that is a mystery we will never know) that remains consistent with that fundamental belief can be used to help our spiritual life, but those explanations that reject that fundamental belief are in actuality different doctrines, and thus should be rejected. And of course, it is the duty of the Church to be the final arbitor of whether an explanation is consistent with the Faith handed on to us from the apostles.

God be with you!

Hi Ryan!

So you are a believer in paedocommunion, eh? That was a BIG argument (like a firestorm) which was going on in the PCA when I was a member of it. I took the position that there was no good reason to deny the elements to children. Needless to say, I was more than delighted to see the priests in the East communing infants as soon as they could swallow a bit of the Precious Blood.

It seems to me we might be kindred spirits, given our mutual reformed background. Without a lot of embellishment, you will find that the Catholic Faith perfectly dovetails with theological covenantalism and the covenant will make sense of the Catholic Faith for you.

May God bless your journey.

Cordially in Christ,


Brother Ed

As one raised Southern Baptist and a husband who was Polish National Catholic, we can say we made the journey 26 years ago. My husband, now a deacon, and I just continue to grow in our love of the Lord and his Church, the saints - militant & triuphant - the Most Holy Theotkos & St. Joseph.

As awesome as it was to see our four year old son Baptised back in 79, it is in some ways, even more exciting to know that his wife and our first grandbaby will be Baptised into Christ this weekend.

The joy of the Lord never stops or slows, it only grows! Jump in, the water is fine - when the tomb is entered you come up born again in Christ! The only way to go

Pani Rose