www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Byzantine Catholic Church Extinct? Not if i can help it

Just to add a bit of comedy to this mundain and mean board Coalesco said shouldn't we have courage to sing what our great grandparents sang. Actually because of my age i am singing what my great grandparents sang. so for the moment i am happy.lol. I would also be me open to the music if it were in old slavonic.

-Katie g

Just curious:

Why would any Christian leave a Church over music or over pews?

What exactly is so terribly unChristian about the new music? My only complaint is, "I haven't learned how to sing it yet" but I will. Are these tunes really the ones our/your grandparents sang? If so, then let's learn them and stop bellyaching. Who is/are the person/s who have brought this new music in? What is his/her/their theological rational for it?

Dan Lauffer

Katie, it is good to know that some of "our youth" are interested in their Byzantine Catholic Church and want to see it continue on and prosper. I am also glad to hear that you have an interest in the Church Slavonic "original" chant music. I wish more of our clergy and bishops had more appreciation for our liturgical tradition, maybe our music would sound better in the new English translations. I know what the original Church Slavonic liturgies were like, as I was a small child when the transition to English happened. I also know that most of what is rendered in English will never sound as good as the Church Slavonic did. I hope that someday soon our Metropolia will adopt a more parishioner-friendly English version. I think there should be more feed back from the parishes before this new music is promulgated. I would also like to see the "old school" cantors, those who were trained at St. Procopius (by the professional cantors who came from Europe) have a say in what will be used in the parishes. Did it ever occur to the Liturgical Commission to ask these "trained" cantors for their suggestions? There should have been more lay parishioners and cantors consulted. Instead, a small number of clergy were the ones making the decisions for the entire Metropolia and that's not very democratic. Again, thank you for your interest in our Byzantine Catholic Church, and never be afraid to speak up or ask questions!

Ung-Certez

Dear Katie,

You make more sense than some of the posters in this thread. We need to encourage spiritual revitalization and evangelization, not chase people away. Good pastoral care requires that the people be respected.

I also agree with the Administrator that posts should be more specific and more charitable toward those we disagree with.

"I would like, however, to remind all participants to be charitable in their posts. Uncharitable posts generally render one's argument unpersuasive."


Music of 100 years ago may not survive translation to English, as the patterns of speech and accents are different. Just because it old or "traditional" doesn't mean it makes pastoral sense to impose it.

On the other hand, keeping things the same just because that's how they were done last week or last year doesn't make sense either. We are called to return to our authentic roots, so we should be using text properly translated from Slavonic to English. The musical tones should be adjusted for English patterns of speech. It does help if they can actually be sung by those who have no training.

John
Pilgrim and Odd Duck

What is different?
The liturgy prayers/ The Eight Tones/The Vesper Tones?

From the Wisconsin Vacuum

Nicky's Baba

I've been to the Cathedral a couple of times and I've heard the new music. It was awful. I couldn't sing at all, and no one around me was singing either. The Church had an empty feeling, and since I couldn't sing along with the cantor, I felt like they didn't want me there.

The music isn't completely different, it sounds familiar. But it doesn't feel right, and you can't follow it. It seems to put you on the wrong beat on purpose, just to keep you from participating. I am glad I don't have to put up with it all the time, I think Athanasius is right and I would be one of those who would leave the Cathedral if there is no hope of things improving there, luckily the Cathedral music isn't used at my Church.

A parish lives on its music, it may very well die with it too.

So it sounds like a concenus is starting to emerge. This is going to pose a serious problem if this music is promulgated. There should have been more "road testing" around the Metropolia before any final decisions were made. If it is enforced, it is going to cause problems, problems that could have been avoided. There are far more worse problems facing the Ruthenian Byzantine Metropolia, such as restoring the tradition of a married priesthood and increasing vocations.

Ung-Certez

nicholas

I wasn't there when it happened, but when we went from singing only Church Slovonic to singing English, my guess is the experience was much like what you have descibed. But in time, you grew accostomed to the new melodies in English. These new melodies are more faithful to the original melodies in the Church Slovanic. Give it time, certainly more than just one or two tries, and after a while, these new melodies will probably feel een better than what we have now. Change is always difficult, but if we give the music a FAIR chance (at least a year, maybe longer), it will prove itself worthy.

if God is truly with us, we have nothing to fear.
If all we have is fear, then we never had God to begin with.

peace
Tim

Dear Ung-Certez and all interested in music:

First, we need to clarify what music you are talking about, meaning, can you please refer to its source, whose name is on it, etc. It is my understanding that the music presently under consideration by the Liturgical Commission hasn't even been released yet, so what new music have you heard? Some parishes use a copied hand out for Tropars and other proper chants, but this is NOT the music for the Liturgical commision, rather it is from John Vernoski.

I happen to know that the truly NEW music (which hasn't been released yet) is being reviewed by many people, priests, cantors, layity, and they are bending over backwords to get feedback. But it's much too early to even be having this conversation. Let's just relax. In time, everything will become clear. And everything will be OK.

Peace
Tim

Katie, the man behind the chant a steeped in the Eastern Traditions. He is, without question, the man for the job. We are blessed to have him doing this work. We must be open to what he is doing. He is very sensative to all the issues.

Tim

Tim Woods wrote:
�Give it time, certainly more than just one or two tries, and after a while, these new melodies will probably feel een better than what we have now. Change is always difficult, but if we give the music a FAIR chance (at least a year, maybe longer), it will prove itself worthy.�

How many years do you suggest? We have been singing the new music at the cathedral for well over a year. They don�t work. No one can sing them. Is music that no one can sing the mark of perfect music?

Tim Woods wrote:
�First, we need to clarify what music you are talking about, meaning, can you please refer to its source, whose name is on it, etc. It is my understanding that the music presently under consideration by the Liturgical Commission hasn't even been released yet, so what new music have you heard?�

The new music was written by J. Michael Thompson. It has been used here at the cathedral and in the seminary for over a year. It is also used in the cantors� school. Lots of people have copies. It is the same music that the bishops are planning to promulgate for the entire country on September 1. Someone please tell me why this new music is needed? If no one can sing it how can it be good?

Tim Woods wrote:
Katie, the man behind the chant a steeped in the Eastern Traditions. He is, without question, the man for the job. We are blessed to have him doing this work. We must be open to what he is doing. He is very sensative to all the issues.�

He is not asking people to be open to what he is doing. He is asking the bishops to promulgate his work as the only chant allowable in our church. It doesn�t work. Come to the cathedral and hear how bad it is for yourself.