www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Flight 93 victims honored with Muslim Crescent

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46256

I think it is safe to say that these victims were already "embraced by the crescent" in the form of Muslim fanaticism. I left a voicemail with the superintendent voicing my opposition to this symbol.

General Correspondence By Mail:

National Park Service
109 West Main Street, Suite 104
Somerset, PA 15501-2035

By Phone:

Superintendent - Flight 93 National Memorial
(814) 443-4557

By Fax:
(814)443-2180
http://www.flight93memorialproject.org/press.asp?area=doc

The article is right - the decision makers on this are either cruel or clueless.

Gordo

I must ask all of us on this day of remembrance to also remember that not every Muslim is a supporter of Osama bin Laden or is a terrorist. At tonight's candle light vigil where I live, there will be a good amount of Muslims with us and they are welcome, and two lost friends in Tower 1 that day!

Seraphim,

An excellent reminder. Let me only say that I posted this not to inspire animosity towards all Muslims (one of my son's best friends is a devout Muslim). Rather, I think it is a reasonable to object to the blatant use of a Muslim symbol in the very place where adherents to this faith (however extreme their belief) murdered others by deliberately crashing their plane into a field.

Were this a plane filled with Jews and had Christian fundamentalist extremists boarded it with the intent of killing themselves, the members of the flight and innumerable people on the ground and they met the same fate as the passengers on Flight 93, do you believe it would be fitting that the memorial be a large grove of trees in the shape of a cross, bearing the title "The Cross's Embrace"? The answer is plainly "No!". It would be regarded as the height of extreme idiocy and insensitivity on the part of the park service to even consider such a display. And Jews and Christians would be right in objecting to such a memorial, and I would still have called the superintendent to complain.

So, how is this any different?

Gordo

SERAPHIM41

Yes, but we must also remember that every Muslim is a lost soul.

I have to say, the designer and those responsible for the memorial display bad taste in having anything close to a symbol that may seem to glorify the hijackers. It is insensitive to the victims' families. It would be akin to having a memorial bearing a nazi swastika for the victims of the WWII holocaust.

Just very insensitive.

Father Anthony+

Father Anthony,

May I ask you a question regarding Orthodoxy? What is the position of the Church regarding Islam? Can a Muslim go to heaven? Am I even asking the right question?

I am reading "The Orthodox Way" by Bishop Kallistose Ware. On page 107 is a quote from Aleksei Khomiakov which states,
If a Muslim is not a member of Orthodoxy then he is not a member of the Church, so that Muslim can't be saved?

Ray,

I will be honest with you, no one is beyond salvation unless so judged by God before His throne. If by rejecting our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ as the second member of the Trinity, means you are beyond being saved, yes I would say, though without any official authority, that they can not be saved.

Father Anthony+

Ray,
As a postscript, I really can not specifically quote any specific official pronouncement given by the Church. I would take Bishop Kallistos' pronouncement to be the official stance.

I would think the analogy might be closer to Japan's "rising sun".

I wouldn't doubt the ACLU is happy with the proposed design since they don't seem to recognise any familiar religious symbol in the design. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Steve Petach,
from the county that used to have a cross on its seal before the ACLU had it removed.

I must agree with Father's observation that the embracing Crescent is incrdibly insensitive. I don't know what ought to go there but I'm certain that a crescent symbol is terribly wrong and cruel.

Dan L

Just think of the family members, the artist decides to do his own tribute to Islam or whatever else he has in mind the point is the family memebers don't want to be reminded of the religion that played a direct role in the destruction of their loved ones life. This is utterly ridiculous and beyond poltical correcttion and just bizarre.
This would be like being Jew and having your family memebers killed in the holucost and having the nazi swastika as the symbol on your loved ones graves.

This is just plain sick. What else does the red crescent mean? Will Iraq and Afghanistan allow a cross-shaped memorial in their homelands? They will keep trying until every church has a minaret, our legal system adopts Islamic law, and every cross is taken down. The design implies: Ha, ha! We got you surrounded! We're closing in on you because Christians are divided and whimps; their leaders will just sit back. One year at a time.

After the Crescent is planted, then we can mount a cross in the middle of the design and raise pigs there.

Joe

Well before we start a new crusade, I think it needs to be rememberd it is not intended to be a Crescent of Islam moon but a broken circle, broken by the path of the downed jet. If victim's family members don't have a problem with it and in fact they served on the jury that selected the design I think we need to respect that and not read our own agenda into it.

"'I think people are reading too much into it,' said Kenneth Nacke, whose brother, Louis, died in the crash. 'It doesn't affect my decision on it in any way. I'm still happy with it.'

Gordon Felt, whose brother, Edward, died in the crash, called the focus on the crescent an 'unfortunate distraction,' from the fourth anniversary memorial service tomorrow at the crash site.

Still, he continued, 'It would be silly of us to have some sort of symbolism [in the memorial] that would be offensive to people.'

Eight family members served on the second-stage jury that selected the final memorial design."

Dear Friends,

Forgive me, but I don't see how that is a Muslim crescent.

If it is meant to be, then it would be offensive primarily to . . . Muslims, I would think.

For example, it was after the defeat of the Turks at Vienna (at which a relative of the Orthodox St Innocent Kulchitsky fought) that the "croissant" was developed as a deliberate means to offend Islam - "crescent" buns are still popular (I had some with breakfast yesterday, as a matter of fact).

Crescents were also used on Orthodox Crosses, instead of the foot-rest in many cases, to signify the defeat of Islam by Christianity as shown in Ray S.' avatar.

So IF, and as Fr. Deacon Lance points out is a big "if," the symbol was meant to be a crescent - it COULD remind people of who it was that committed the atrocities and the like.

Alex

Dear Friends,

One more thing . . . The Islamic Crescent and Star were, according to some, taken directly from Byzantine Christianity as symbols of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

They especially became popular after the Fall of Constantinople.

The crescent is a popular theme in many Western images and Eastern icons of the Theotokos and the Star represents her role as heralding the coming of the Sun/Son of God, the 12 Stars in the Crown of the Woman in Revelation with the moon at her feet.

Then again, the Star of David is considered to be a form of the Greek Cross in Christian heraldry . . .

Salaam!

Alex