www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall John Kerry & Latin Legalism

Dear Friends,

Some of our Latin colleagues expressed concern at one point about how Eastern Christians understood their Church as being overly "legalistic."

I think the situation of pro-abortion U.S. presidential candidate John Kerry illustrates what we mean . . .

Cardinal Arinze stated emphatically the other day that Catholic politicians who support abortion should not go to Communion and priests should not communicate them.

When asked if this applies to John Kerry in the U.S., the good Cardinal said that the U.S. bishops should interpret what he said for their particular situation.

The Archbishop of Washington, last week, however, said he wouldn't want to use the Eucharist in this way . . .

On the other hand, as Arinze said (Latin Trad's hero! ) a priest could foreseeably give Communion to someone like Kerry IF he was surprised by suddenly seeing him standing before him in the Communion line . . .

In that case . . .

If anyone can make out a clear and consistent approach in this matter with respect to John Kerry and other Catholic politicians who support abortion - please do let us Eastern Christians know!

Whenever you're ready . . .

Alex

Easy, Alex. The bishops are just practicing economia.

Cheers,
Manuel

Dear Manuel,

Then, in that case, better the bishops than the Democrats!

(Sorry, Brian!!)

Perhaps U.S. Catholics should think twice before "cashin' Kerry."

Alex

John Kerry is not permitted to receive Communion under canon law.

The bishops in the USA (with the exception of +Burke in St. Louis and +Bruskewitz in Lincoln NE) are dancing every which way to avoid saying so.

I was really disappointed with Arinze for the vagueness of his statement on this issue. He is my hero for the courage he displayed at Georgetown, however!

In Christ,

LatinTrad

Dear LT,

As for your Arinze comment, well, I"ll let other RC's here interpret it . . .

Alex

I can't make up my mind: is Cardinal Arrinze simply a fool, or is this a machiavellian Vatican plot to ensure Kerry's election to the presidency? Either way, Arrinze's ill-timed intervention, plus Kerry's evident willingness to ignore it and receive Holy Communion whenever he so pleases will guarantee him lots more votes.
Christ is Risen!
Incognitus

You mentioned "consistent" and "John Kerry" in the same sentence! It all depends on what he wants you to hear next week. We're still trying to determine which of his several stories about his Vietnam medals is true.

Joe

This much is true..Kerry served in active combat..George W. Bush didn't.

John Kerry stated that one's military service didn't matter in a speech to Congress awhile back. He stated that many served their country in different ways. But that was when Bill Clinton became president. But now it does? Is this another consistency issue?

So, what story about his war medals do YOU believe? Which one do you think Kerry believes ... this week?

If he can't get these easy ones straight, how can he get abortion issue straight? Would you believe him ... this week?

Joe

The Vatican uses Nigerian Cardinals to influence American elections all the time, doncha know?

The document was no doubt in the works before Kerry's campaign, and Arinze did not mention Kerry until pressed about it. Even then, he only said what should have been obvious already: a pro-choice Catholic politician should not receive, but it is up to the US bishops to enforce.

I don't see how that follows - and even if it does, should we think first about politics?

I'm not sure I dare try to answer Alex's post, though. :p I don't think anyone has ever accused the US bishops of being 'clear and consistent'. :rolleyes:

Christ is risen!! Indeed He is risen!!!

Our Saturday newspaper carried a picture of John Kerry “taking” communion on Palm Sunday in an African Methodist Episcopal church in Boston. So my comment is that this discussion is moot. My instruction in the Faith was that a Catholic excommunicates himself by approaching the sacrament outside the confines of the Catholic Church. The whole question is wrapped up in the theology one accepts as part of the church one receives in and its difference from the Catholic Faith.

So where is Mr. Kerry? Good question, but he certainly “confirms” his inconsistency. Is he still a Catholic? Another good one. I leave these for the bishops and theologians.

It seems to me that this is such a serious matter—that of being Catholic (or Orthodox)—that one does not cavalierly wander all over the religious landscape possibly promoting indifferentism by example and/or word.

In Him Who rose from the dead for us,

BOB

FYI,

Kerry received Communion at a 'Catholic' church in Boston last Saturday.

It was at a chapel of the Paulist Order; as such, it is not under the direct supervision of the local Ordinary (+Archbishop O'Malley)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/26/politics/main613624.shtml

Christ is Risen!
Truly He is Risen!

"...neither like Judas will I give Thee a kiss; but like the thief will I confess Thee: Remember me, O Lord, in Thy Kingdom."

Gaudior, thinking liberalism can be carried too far, but it will be to his own "judgment or condemnation".

Dear Friends,

Well, the chapel where Kerry was at also had gay couples in attendance with adopted children et al. and this is with the blessing, according to the article, of Catholic bishops.

IF it is true that the Roman Catholic Church in the U.S. would allow a politician who has made a public stand on issues his own Church has pronounced against to attend Communion nevertheless, then what does this say about the RC Church?

This is not a matter of private conscience that an individual weighs and then goes to Communion even though what he or she believes goes counter to official Church teaching - that would be bad as well.

This is someone claiming to be a Catholic and being in support of abortion.

This is someone who will probably be the next American President and who, as such, will make abortion more readily available in the U.S. - and will probably fight Vatican efforts with respect to birth control at the U.N. as well.

And he will still be allowed to attend Communion and won't be excommunicated.

Now, my friends, let me ask you.

What kind of hypocrisy is this that is being demonstrated by the Roman Catholic Church.

Are Catholics here not upset by this?

At least the Orthodox would say, "Is Outrage!"

And why does there seem to be one rule for laity and unimportant Catholics, and another rule for famous Catholics.

Catholics are good at screaming and protesting against abortion clinics and the "enemies of Catholicism."

What about the enemy within?

Sorry, but is this not the height of ecclesial hypocrisy on the part of the Catholic Church?

Would the Orthodox Church allow this? I think not . . .

Alex