www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Post Election Confession?

Dear Fr. Dcn John,

No problem, now that President Bush is re-elected, I like your country JUST AS IT IS!

I don't know what it is, but a delicious sense of satisfaction enveloped my ontological being yesterday, just as soon as I learned of President Bush's victory.

I listened sympathetically to the Democrats' bemoaning that they didn't have a message or failed to get it out etc.

I think they DID have a clear message and DID get it out - the people simply rejected it. What's wrong with admitting that? It happens . . .

By the way, on a matter of protocol, if I should have the privilege of meeting your President when he comes to Canada, what is the proper way of addressing him? Is there a particular form?

I'll try to force myself not to kiss his hand when he extends it . . .

God bless America!

Alex

As of today we have no viable option. Suggest one.

Dan L

I second that.
In 2000 the Canadian dollar was at 64.8 cents US. 4 years later it has hit a record high of 81.9 cents US.
Bush is good for Canada...

Brad

Jennifer,

For whatever it may be worth, I am with you.

I did not find Kerry particularly compelling, but in conscience, I cannot bring myself to vote for George W. Bush.

I find it interesting that certain issues that i find terribly important never even hit the radar screen in this campaign. Interesting, but not surprising. Too many people fail to understand that legislation is what gets the press, but regulation is what controls the process - and regulation happens under the radar. I believe that the right to life includes the right of American workers to assume that they will live through the workday, and return home un-disabled. The right of Hispanic workers not to be killed on the job. I could go on - but in the last 4 years worker safety protections hard won over decades and by the blood of workers injured, disabled and killed on the job, have steadily been decimated. "Costs too much" business says - the same businesses who routinely are NOT prosecuted even for workplace deaths resulting from repeated, documented willful violation of fundamental, required safety standards. And fines are routinely reduced to amounts so paltry you couldn't buy a decent used car with it - and that is the price of a human life. (And there's been an extremey underhanded midnight effort to suppress NIOSH by burying it several layers deeper within CDC - contrary to it's congressional charter, without consultation with ANY stakeholders.)Business affiliations are so much nicer than protecting worker's lives....

Another isssue that the general media hardly noticed (and probably understood less) is the systematic subversion of science within government. The messaage is what is important - NOT good science. And the makeup of those scientific committees, which historically have been apolitical, were pervasively subjected to political and ideological litmus tests over the last four years - and when even these "vetted" groups came up with inconvenient findings, they were re-written before being presented to the public. (The air in the neighborhoods around Ground Zero is perfectly safe! Trust us, we're experts!)

The list goes on.

The current administration has a masterful grasp of controlling the message.

Sharon

Dear Mother Sharon,

Actually, your last sentence is the name of the game of politics.

The party that DOESN'T have that skill under its belt is the party that loses.

What parties stand for doesn't really matter any more - they ALL say one thing during an election and another afterwards.

And liberal parties are experts at the "that was then and this is now" line when they get elected.

But I think your election was a good one with solid voter turnout.

They heard the arguments on both sides - we in Canada heard them too.

And the people have spoken. They rejected Kerry and elected Bush with a stronger majority than he had before, for whatever reason.

What happened during your election is not ONLY a reflection on Bush and Kerry.

It is a reflection on Americans and where their heads' are at today.

Whether we like it or not . . .

Alex

Sharon,

I agree that it is important that scientifice research continue. I agree that workers need protection when working. What I'm not sure of is your assertion that these things are not being done now. I'm not sure either that the government must be directly involved with all of these areas except to monitor safety and research and when absolutely nothing is being done in vital areas, which rarely happens, then the government should intercede.

If you can point me to some evidence that scientific research has slowed in the last four years or that people are injured more without compensation I would be very open to study those things. Can you give me some direction here?

Dan L

Dear Dan,

I've no doubt but that Kerry would have been elected as Canadian Prime Minister!

Americans have shown themselves to be more conservative though . . .

I guess there are few liberals during war-time, not to mention atheists in fox-holes . . .

Alex

Dan,

The evidence is widely available if you care to look - a Google search should show you plenty. It is not my purpose to start a debate - merely to state what I did - that some things I consider important never entered into the discussion.


Alex,

Absolutely agreed - it's shaping and controlling the message that matters in politics. (It's also not infrequently been observed that the characteristics that meke a candidate attractive are not necessarily the characteristics that make him or her good at governing.) A growing number of voices in the Democratic party have noted their lack of skill in this area, but so far, no Karl Rove counterpart has emerged since the Clinton campaign, with the clear message of "It's the Economy Stupid."

Sharon

Those "pundits" (whoever they may be) did not ask this weekly Church-attending (and sometimes during the week) Democratic voter. I really don't think it is as polarized as this. Churchgoing voters are surely not a monolith and thank God for that!

Though I support neither Bush or Kerry I certainly can live with the results. I'm hugely disappointed though that Michael Peroutka wasn't even on the ballot in my state, didn't expect he'd even get 1 pct, but still wanted to vote for him anyway. On the positive side, 11 out of 11 states voted to define marriage as a heterosexual institution, so I don't believe we've totally gone down the tubes yet.

Dear Sharon,

I agree with your agreement with me . . .

But I think the Democrats have to face up to the fact that they lost NOT because their message DIDN'T get out.

In some cases, the states where they pumped the most money is where they had the most problems.

In any event, their message DID get out - and the people rejected it.

If they won't face up to that, and also to the fact that Bill Clinton won't make a comeback, they will be consigned to the political wilderness for some time to come.

It's "John Wayne" time in the U.S. right now which is why John Kerry and "others who eat quiche" have been shut out.

I speak as someone with some experience in politics up here. And if the Democrats hired me to help them, I'd tell them the same thing.

Alex

Lawrence, keep the faith and remember our Lord couldn't even win a popularity contest against Barabbas. Numbers and party platforms are meaningless when dealing with conscience and metanoia. And right on, Sharon.

Alex,

I live in one of those states. I deeply appreciate the fact that as of yesterday, I can turn the TV on without having to wipe the slime off of my hand afterwards. The TV stations don't have to worry about their budgets for the rest of the year - and the contents of 85% of those ads were vile and twisted - from both parties and their 527 minions. When everybody is shouting, I'm not sure how much of a coherent "message" is received - and how to sort the shreds of truth from the mounds of half-truths isn't always clear. As we both stated, controlling the message is critical, and the Republicans showed better control. Oh - and that negative advertising still works, no matter how much most of us deplore it.

A BOATLOAD of money was spent in my state. Me, I spent most of the last weeks of the campaign (when I was hip-deep in a sewing project that is still rearing its ugly head) being grateful that we have a DVD player, and 5 seasons of SG-1. Oh - and hanging up on computerized political telephone calls. My 8 year old happily announced "I hung up on George Bush!" Yup. And I'd hung up on eight other calls, from both parties, over the previous couple of days - and my husband had hung up on dozens more. (The National Do Not Call List exempts political and charitable organizations from its strictures.)

A lot of money got spent. Certainly some of it produced a benefit for someone - but I am by FAR not the only person I know who pretty well shut off the TV for most of the last month as much as possible - and I listen to Public Radio, so I didn't get those ads either.

Let me tell you how disgusting it got. I'm sure you've heard about most of the national candidate ads. Well there was one local race for I think the State legislature. It wasn't my district, but I live in the major regional media market, so we get the outlying ads too. Joy. The Democratic candidate was Terry Anderson. Yes, THAT Terry Anderson, the one who spent seven years as a hostage in the Middle East. His opponent put out a smear ad, showing a photograph of Anderson speaking with obviously Islamic folks - and crowing that Anderson was soft on terrorism. That photo came from a documentary some years ago where Anderson went back to the Middle East, met with his former captors, and sought to know why he had been taken. Soft on terrorism. Oh please. I'm not sure how that race came out.

I'm glad to be back to ads about erectile dysfunction remedies and beer - at least they are done tastefully...


Sharon

Dear Mother Sharon,

Yes, U.S. politics can get rather dirty and whenever our negative political ads go too far, the reaction is always, "hey, we're not Americans!"

What does it say in the Psalms, "Do not put your trust in princes, they cannot save . . .?"

I'm sure that applies to republican/democrat politicians!

And, as an aside, while Fr. Deacon John (quite correctly) asserts the non-monarchial aspects of America, every President of yours seems to have royal roots going back into British history . . .

We Canucks pride ourselves on having not a REVOLUTIONARY society, but an EVOLUTIONARY society.

Which is probably why we're so much calmer than you people south of the border . . .

Alex

Alex dear,

Don't mention the "E" word in MY state - we're the state with the the thinly disguised "Scientific Creationism" junk recently crammed into the Biology educational curriculum standards - after all, we are FAIR - we want to show BOTH sides of the question!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


(If I don't believe in gravity will it go away??)


My husband was commenting the other day that New Zealand was looking better and better......


*sigh*


Sharon