www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall bishops, oooooooohhh

This morning I attended Divine Liturgy at the OCA cathedral in Ottawa. Every time I attend church there I am amazed at the way the bishop behaves. He is the gentlest, warmest person in the whole place. When he serves you don't even see him, you see Christ.
It is so frustrating to see bishops, who are these beautiful father figures, warm and inviting, even to strangers, and then to go home and get ignored by your own spiritual parents. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing but dutiful respect for our hierarchy, but it is just that, dutiful.

hmmm.
I realize that there are bishops that look at these forums and I ask their forgiveness. Perhaps I shouldn't be airing out our "dirty laundry", but if it hadn't been for an extremely cold shoulder from many of our bishop's I would have probably been in seminary right now . Oh well.

God be merciful to me a sinner.

Ilya

(I am probably pushing it with this on but we'll see.)

Ilya's description of Bishop Seraphim is accurate, and I am happy that Ilya can recognize the Bishop's innate goodness, love and sense of humor. I can assure Ilya from personal experience that these qualities can also be found in some highly worth-while hierarchs of his own Church as well. That there are also some men whom one would prefer to see in other walks of life . . . well, where is that not true? Virtue is where you find it, so when you find it, rejoice. When you do not find it, redouble your prayers for your own bishop, not ought of a sense of duty, but out of a recognition of your own needs (and the needs of everyone else for whom the Bishop is responsible). Incognitus

Very true.

There are some bishops in our church that have that 'fatherly' sense. The best example I can think of is the reposed bishop ISIDORE (Borecky). Administerily he was a disaster (and from my understanding so is bishop Seraphim), but hey, that's what deacons are supposed to be for. The kind of bishop you could feel comfortable around, more of a feeling than anything else.
Well, this is a subjuct that hurts my heart constantly. What else can we do but continue to pray.

Ilya

I have found the Bisops that I have had a chance to be around very loving and nurturing. Praise God!

Epsecoially during my husbands ordination to the Diaconate. There were several prostestants and a few PNC there, they absolutely loved Metropollitan Basil.
One friend got to hear him twice. I think he had suce ha preconceived notion about Catholics, and when the Metorpolitans homilies hit him between the eyes, he was extremely impressed.

The bottom line is he saw the love of Christ!

Rose

Ilya,

Quick! Enter the seminary and become a bishop like Seraphim! I will be here for another 18 months to assist you! (Alex says you should come, too!) I can find you a couple of deacons who administer things well.... and don't start about unworthiness. Peter, James, John, Bartholomew, etc. ... they weren't exactly worthy in our eyes (and probably their own, too.)

father michael

Nice glasses.

I know I would end up opening my big mouth and getting kicked out.
Lord help us, the last thing you want is me for a bishop (the thought makes me sick to my stomach). Don't even say such things-absolutely no trying to be modest here.
But seminary is still very intriguing (my heart longs for Jordanville). We'll see.

Ilya.

And St Vlad's is chopped liver???

Saint Vlad's isn't what it used to be (so i've been told).
Jordanville makes me quiver in fear, Saint Vlad's makes me snikker (I know that's an awful thing to say, but I mean it in the best way)(I love their music).

sorry.

I wonder when the administrator is going to get on my back about my avitar. I will give it another day.
(Hi administrator!)

ilya

I like it (your avatar)!

C of S

Thanks,

When I get kicked off you can write in my defense.

They say that it is to big, against forum rules, but what are "rules"?
-can you tell I've been taking philosophy? rediculous.

I am being such an ass. I can't help it though, I'm 20 years old!! cut me some slack, man.

Gavshev

Ilya:

You raise an excellent point. Some of what you describe we have brought on ourselves by allowing Rome to impose its will upon our Church.

Other parts, well, it just goes to our human limitations in that a bishop wears so many proverbial hats so that it is impossible for one man to do all those jobs effectively.

However, you are more than correct when you say that this is where "deacons" come in. All too often people think of deacons in their liturgical role.

However, why cannot our Churches come out and say, by the way, we need not only those trained in theology, but we also need lawyers (both cannon and civil), MBA's, HR people etc. etc. etc. to serve as "deacons" in our eparchies and parishes.

Give such people the proper amount of training in liturgics, theology, scripture, etc. to allow them to effectively understand what they need for proper ordination to the diaconate, but draw upon their experiences in the secular world and allow them to assist the bishops in their administrative roles.

Oh, and, by the way, you can all keep your day jobs. Just a thought.

Yours,

hal

Hal,

"Oh, and, by the way, you can all keep your day jobs. Just a thought."

I have to juggle working a 40 hour week full time job, preparing for and teaching an ECF class and an adult class every week, preparing and giving a homily every other week, not to mention the odds and ends my pastor assigns me, spending time with my wife and kids, and taking care of my home. But I'll gladly take on another 20 a week job for no pay and more time away from family! :rolleyes:

Comments like the above are what make prosepctive married vocations say: "Thanks, but no thanks."

Why is it if a layperson has a job in the Church enumeration is expected to be commensurate with experience but an ordained deacon or priest is expected to do same job for nothing or peanuts? A married deacon or priest can simply not be expected to work a full-time job to support his family and then work another for free because the Church can't afford it. It is not fair to the man's family and it is not just.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Did somebody get your goat? :p

Dear Deacon Lance:

First, where the heck did I say that deacons did not need to be compensated for their services to the Church?

As for the "assignments," the point is that not every deacon has to serve at the Holy Table every week, give a sermon every other week, teach classes etc. etc. etc.

There could concievably be a deacon whose job is to be, for example, the lawyer for the eparchy. He can take certainly his turn serving, but that would not be his primary function. He sits in his law office, but when the bishop needs for someone to call up the eparchy's health insurer because they have not paid for priest X's kid's orthodonture, there he is.

Others could do the books, deal with personnel issues etc.

Still others would do what you and have as their primary function attending to the spiritual needs of the faithful.

If you think about it, what I say would lighten your workload as well in that some of those "odds and ends" that you pastor assigns to you may just somehow disappear. Think about it.

And, of course, we all get paid for our services as such.

I guess that one doesn't really need to be ordained to do what I suggest, but it would certainly add something to one's feeling of acceptance and belongining, don't you think?

Yours,

hal