www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall What are the rules for Priest's wives ?

Dear Green Coat,

O.K., but the thread has developed in a direction as a result of a direct question put above and the question is not, I would say, unrelated to the original purpose of the thread.

We've established there are no real "rules" governing the life of the presbytera except the unwritten ones concerned with Christian witness and assistance to their husbands' ministry.

Alex

Dear Andrew,

You raise excellent points!

I too have come across young presbyteras who were similarly embittered.

Personally, I think that it is important for today's married priest to hold a secular job and to be as economically independent of the parish as possible.

I've been to parishes where the financial control exerted by the people or the church committee over their priests is not only unChristian - but anti-Christian.

In my uncle's parish, the elderly priest was obliged to say words of praise in honour of the wife of the chairman of the parish committee each Sunday!

He had a very ill wife who depended on his paycheque alone for treatments etc.

When the priest ommitted to do his "schtick" one Sunday, the chairman decided to withold his pay . . .

When I heard that, I lost it, told the chairman off in private and said that if I ever heard him play evil tricks like that again I would personally go to the bishop and camp myself outside his home until he did something about people like him in our Church.

What an a__hole!

Alex

There are some people in my parish that asked me to be chairman of the church committee. This is also a difficult position. I told them that I was not ready for it and I also told them that the Basilians were not ready for me either.
Lauro

Dear Lauro,

The Basilians THOUGHT they were ready for ME!

Alex

I agree with this statement.

I believe for any married Priest in today's society they would have to hold a secular job just to make a survivable living for their family.

Some Orthodox Priests hold secular jobs while serving a parish. Our Greek Catholic "St. Paul tent-makers" are also providing a good example of serving a parish while working secularly.

I believe this is the wave of the future if we want to maintain and keep our married priesthood.

Dear Friends,

The model of a married priest with a family and a secular job is also appealing to me, but presents some problems, and has one great hurdle.

Canonically, the type of employment is limited to non-worldly things. Teaching is the recommended profession, canonically. I'm sure that other professions can be considered non-worldly, such as social work, medicine and artisanry.

Often, however, clergy with a secular job feel that they must serve two masters, neither of whom they can fully please. I'm speaking of God (not the Chairman) and the world. I think that this arrangement can only work for the Church if the clergyman always makes the Church the priority. Logically, this would lead to being fired from most secular jobs. A substitute teacher ($100/day) who may call in and accept or decline jobs each day is one viable option. Artistic and literary pursuits can also yield to the model that I'm proposing.

Because of these difficulties, the presbytera often pursues a successful secular career to ensure financial stability for her family. However, this often reduces her ability to be an effective or highly involved presbytera, thus the Church loses out from that end of things.

Many times, we find that a chairman or council does not want to have a financially independent priest! It takes away their bargaining power!

I think that this is the root cause of the situation described by Alex in his uncle's parish: CONGREGATIONALISM. This is the great hurdle.

When I look to the old world, I see that the bishop and bishops (in synod) really call the shots and prevent such ugly distortions as we find on this side of the Atlantic.

In Albania, (five years ago) the priests and deacons received $100 and $80 respectively per month directly from the diocese. This was in line with a national GNP per capita of 1,200. The diocese received its money from the parishes and other donors. From the collection boxes of the parishes (perhaps I'm guessing at these numbers) 30% of the collections go to the diocese, 30% to the local presbyter, 10% to the deacon, 5% to the reader, 5% to the custodian, 10% for upkeep of the physical plant, and 10% to help the widows, orphans and the poor. I remember helping them count the money from the collection box once or twice. In this way, if collections are low, the bishop can always supplement the clergyman's salary and can do so based upon need, size of family, etc.

Once we break away from what we've adopted from the Protestant churches, congregationalism, then we'll find solutions that foster a joyous and exemplary life for our clerical families.

With love in Christ,

Coptic: Tasoni (meaning "sister")

Peace and grace.
Agape,
Fortunatus
Amen, maranatha!

Dear Friends,

In the Ukrainian Catholic married priest tradition (is there any other? ), Presbyteras are traditionally addressed as "Pani Dobrodijka."

I've also heard some addressed as "Presvitera" too.

The Ukrainian Orthodox tradition addresses Presbyteras as "Pani Maty." "Pani Matka" is decidedly Russian.

Not that there's anything wrong with that!

Alex

Glory to Jesus Christ!
I am intrigued by this topic.
Would you be so kind as to expand it to the wives of deacons?
What is their relationship within the parish community? Any particular forms of address? Other customs?
How would they be treated similarly/differently than the wife of a priest?
Thank you.
Deacon El

Dear Honorable Father Deacon:

It is interesting that we don't address the deacon's wife as "deaconess," especially since the title exists in NT scripture.

Now the NT deaconesses primarily served the female community in need (shut-in widows and especially the young widows and young female orphans). This was to avoid scandal, of course. Liturgically, they assisted with the baptism and chrismation of females (since all were baptized without clothes or "bathing suits" but with a white garment only. The bishop/presbyter stood behind a screen or wall with holes only for his two hands. The deaconesses guided his hands).

The use of title's such as presbytera and deaconess do present some good questions, since they now definitely imply ordination only for their male counterparts, presbyter and deacon [related discussion, see the "When did presbyter become priest" subforum].

It's still not clear to me if the NT deaconess was set aside with a laying on of hands or not. Some even say that they liturgically assisted with the eucharistic offering at the altar. My understanding/speculation is that this was happening in some places, leading to the expected temptation of mature males and females working closely, vesting each other, passing the cup to each other, touching each other, etc....and eventually led to the canon against females serving liturgically at the altar. The canon is not against females entering the sanctuary, but against them serving there during the liturgy/services.

IT IS A SHAME THAT WE DON'T USE DEACONESS AS WE NOW USE PRESBYTERA, AS A TITLE OF HONOR FOR THE FAITHFUL SPOUSES.

With warm regards,

As a ROCOR priest,I have no problem with communing someone who has to eat or drink for medical reasons.Even among the strictest Greek Old Calendarists,I think it would be rare to find a priest who have a problem with this.However, when it comes to tobacco, yes,I would deny communion to someone who had a smoke before Liturgy.I've heard of people thinking that they can abstain from food and drink, but still have a smoke before Liturgy.I like my coffee in the morning, but not on days when I liturgise.

Father Al,

Bless!

I understand and support your position, (I am a smoker), but what type of message is conveyed when the priest is seen taking his last few puffs off the cigarette hurridly just before Divine Liturgy?

In Christ,

Michael

Glory to Jesus Christ!
I am intrigued by this topic.
Would you be so kind as to expand it to the wives of deacons?
What is their relationship within the parish community? Any particular forms of address? Other customs?
How would they be treated similarly/differently than the wife of a priest?
Thank you.
Deacon El

Deacon El,

We all found it quite interesting, in my husbands class of 22(exact number is escaping me) that all of the wives said they were changed. Including myself, and my family, we all noticed that when he received ordination to the deaconate through the amazing grace of impostion of hands by the bishop - as he (our husbands changed) amazingly we changed also.

An outward example as far as my husband was his ability to suddenly be able to carry the tones correctly - this had been a big problem for him - honestly - as soon as we were back home, at St. Georges - out came this beautiful melodious voice. It was not there before ordination. TRULY THE GRACE OF ORDINATION!

In a way this happened to all of us as deacon's wives. We found outwardly we were able to do things that before were not easily accomplished. Also, great change took place interiorly. It was like we were suddenly equiped with what our husbands had been prepared for.

Can't explain it, would't be prudent , but God did a work in us to prepare us for the ministry of our husbands and the fact that were suddenly thrown into the middle of our parish. I don't think any of us could have been prepared for what was about to take place. IT IS TRULY AMAZING GRACE!!!

I am kind of getting use to 'Pani & Shas'mas' Still seems a bit odd. I know the first time Deacon Paul called me Pani Rose - I was like WHO? Then I realized he was talking to me. Go figure - a Pani