www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall The EU, women and Mt Athos

I guess we have all known that many people find the aspect of banning women from Mount Athos as anachronistic and discriminative. There has been a movement by European MEP's - particularly from Scandanavia, Holland and Greece, to remedy this situation. According to information gleamed from the European Parliament Site (it comes in over 30 languages!) and from the Orthodox Christian Network, it appears that women may soon be able to visit the Holy Mountain, for in a 277-255 vote, MEP's voted to condemn the age-old policy and to implement policies to force the monks to allow women visitors. I though that this might prove an interesting discussion point; not necessaraly whether banning women is right but about the secular inteferences (right or wrong?) within the church i.e. state appointing bishops, or implementing religious education in schools... So...here is hoping for a good discussion!

Anton :p

To speak figuratively, but also soteriologically, the European ministers can go to hell.

Nothing will happen to allow women on the Holy Mountain without a lot of spilled blood. The atheist Parliament will pass what it will and the Monks will refuse to comply.

Glory be to God.

In Christ.

I thought the Holy Mountain was considered an independent state - not under the jurisdiction of any secular authority [like Vatican City]. So is Mt. Athos part of the European Union? Or is it just part of Greece, which is a member of the EU.

I find this bit of news chilling, as with other developments in the "culture wars." On a related front, the American (RC) bishops' board formed to "protect children" is now making ominous rumblings of a sweeping "review process" to track down the source of the sexual scandals plaguing the church in the U.S. They assure the faithful they won't comment on doctrinal matters, UNLESS that is, they are the "source" of the problem. Interesting turn of phrase. So secular lawyers & politicans now replace theologians.

Does this concern anyone else here?

PAX

The attempt to force the Athonite Republic to change its centuries old custom of banning women from the Republic, by a certain EU parliamentarian, has been quashed---DOA!

Certain EU parliamentarians will be no more successful in coercing the monks of the Holy Mountain to abandon their ancient custom than certain feminists in Greece have been in forcing Pomak women to abandon their veils.

Born in a Greek ghetto,

Abdur

Dear Br. Elias:



Mt. Athos is not an independent state like the Vatican, the latter having been endowed with attributes of a secular state by international law and comity. Thus, the Vatican is a member of the United Nations as a Permanent Observer. (Compare this to the situation of the EP in Turkey!)

The Holy Mountain remains an integral part of the State of Greece under the supervision of a "governor" as far as civilian matters are concerned. This is the rationale for permits to visit the peninsula to be issued by the Foreign Ministry in Athens.

Mt. Athos is "independent" only on religious matters, whatever this term currently means, given the problems the monks of Esfigmenou Monastery are sadly, and tragically, experiencing.

Yes, we, Catholics, are "luckier" in this regard because we have the Vatican, under the leadership of the Pope, ably assisted by the Secretariat of State under Cardinal Sodano, to resolve diplomatic impasses and other grave secular interferences.

This is one of the unseen, and under-appreciated, roles of the Papacy.

AmdG

Dear Amado,

If the Pope will officially acknowledge our Ukie Patriarchate, I'll personally go over there and kiss his foot, whether he's washed it or not . . .

Alex

Oh Alex,

I would have to restrain you because of the memory of the poor Melkite Patriarch humiliated by Pius IX at Vatican I. I would not want to see you suffer that same indignity.

Alex,

I heard a Ukrainian priest recently commemorate "Our Patriarch Lubomyr" during the Great Entrance...

Grass roots, grass roots

Re: Humiliation of Melkite Patriarch

http://www.cin.org/archives/cineast/199711/0483.html

I open to any documentation that contradicts the above account.

Dear Alex, Brian, (and Mikey: since when have you been adopted as a Ukie?)

I have a gut feeling that His Holiness, Pope John Paul II, will soon just do it!

(Just cease from revealing the fact [or fiction?] that HB Lubomyr still hides his Cardinal's ring.)

AmdG

Dear Amado,

I know you read all the Vatican media releases.

However, I will not only be attending the banquet with Patriarch Lubomyr in February - I'm also going to be with him at a private home where he will meet with members of his extended family living in Toronto.

I'll look at his hand for his Cardinal's ring.

If I don't see it there, I'll ask for permission to rummage through his pockets, if he refuses to produce it.

As I understand it, he only wears that thing when in Rome.

For "when in Rome . . ." you know the rest of the story!

That he is a Cardinal is really only a big deal for his family . . .

They are so self-important these days, it's nauseating . . .

Alex

Alex,
You are a lucky guy.I wish I had the chance to speak with our Patriarch. Tell him to come down to Brazil and visit us, and tell him to bring a couple of Studites with him.(Sorry, I guess I've mentioned that before some time ago).
Lauro

Dear Lauro,

Yes, the Studites . . .

I spoke with Fr. Taras at our New Year's Levee recently.

He told me most of the Studites have flown the coop, so to speak, and returned to Ukraine - from their Orangeville monastery - leaving only a couple of Hieromonks to "hold the fort."

I don't know what happened, but it doesn't sit well with many in our Eparchy. I don't know what our Bishop Cornie will do about it either, although there are many public guesses . . .

One person I spoke with was so angry with the Studites that when I mentioned they should "go to Brazil," he suggested a much, much warmer place they should go to . . .

Alas!

Alex

Alex,

Well, I'm still canonically a Latin, so I bounce around to different Eastern churches every now and then, and for some reason end up more often than not at Ukrainian parishes. I may have Ruthenian leanings (being from Pittsburgh and all) but the Ukies keep sucking me in! :p

My "normal" parish is under Bishop Stephen of Philadelphia, too. If and when I do make the canonical shift, it will most likely be into the Ukrainian Church.

You can stop cheering now :p

In Christ,
mikey.

Maybe it's time for the Studites to become Redemptorists? :p