www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Israel, Palestine, Hamas and Christianity

Bob R,

In an effort to keep from being misrepresented, you need to use either the quote button on the new post or the URL button to provide a link. Otherwise, posters think the information provided to be your own opinion.

This will save a lot of confusion on everyone's part.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

An important point, no doubt!

I would not want to be mistaken for Mousa Abu Marzook of DAMASCUS by those who can't read or who only skim postings.

And certainly not by DHS also.

I bet DHS has even less tolerance for remarks about groundhogs. And my cellmates in Guantanamo or Romania or wherever they put people like me won't get the joke either--they don't have groundhogs in Afghanistan, you know.

Be well.

bob r.

I took it as some humor offered. Believe me not everyone looks my humor my way, or for that fact my posts

Whoops!

This should have quotes around it also:

"I took it as some humor offered. Believe me not everyone looks my humor my way, or for that fact my posts"
I don't want to be mistaken for a moderator either.

WHO exactly is DHS?

(And if it is a sarcastic epithet for someone, never mind).

Alice

I have found this interesting how the British often incorectly reffered to as the English were blamed with teh French for being Racists. Yet it was the USA that enforced mass sterilisation of the poor and meltaly ill. allowed Afro-americans to die of treatable sexually transmitted diseses. Now I will stop there as my point is that the picture was far bigger than the postings describe. Injustice has been done to many. No mention of the arab immigration into the Palastine area from Egypt and other places. I dont offer any easy solution but point out that this is more complex than it has been described so far. Yes big power politics have had to be accommodated all through history. My older British relatives are always reminding my generation that the USA came into WWII very late while they were at war from sept 1939 with the Nazis. Yes they were great full when the USA came into the war but there are others who said yes after they cleaned us out and took us to the cleaners. Both Israel and the Arabs who are no calling them selves palastinians, are going to have to come to an understanding one day and it looks like they are slowly moving in that direction. What a situation they have achieved since 1948. Maybe Israel will create the Arab state no onter Arab country wanted to see come into existance in 1948.

Sam Bahour, a Christian Palestinian leader, has sent me a copy of his talk given at the Association of International Development Agencies (AIDA) in Palestine on the Palestinian elections two days ago. As with almost everything
else Sam writes and says, this is timely and profound.

Sam still lives in El-Bireh. He is co-author of HOMELAND: Oral Histories of Palestine and Palestinians (1994).

If you would like a copy of Sam's talk, please contact me at rjrossi@navicom.com or send me a private message here.

I also heard that Fr. Musallam at the Holy Family Latin Rite Church in Gaza invited Mahmoud Zahar of Hamas to his church for a community meeting. Everything went well. Fr. Musallam has been a past supporter of Hamas.

One Love.

bob r.

I forgot to add this.

http://www.pnn.ps/english/archive2006/feb/week1/020206/report4.htm

One Love.

bob r.

Dear Pavel you said:

"My older British relatives are always reminding my generation that the USA came into WWII very late while they were at war from sept 1939 with the Nazis. Yes they were great full when the USA came into the war..."

I say:

I should hope that they were grateful that we entered the war. We didn't have to go to war you know...especially in Europe.

Pres. Roosevelt started the lend lease so that Britain could buy arms from us, without paying for them...England was broke. Now for a little information.

For one, we didn't have to go into WW I either. There were as many Germans, and people of German descent in this nation as there were English. There were also the Irish immigrants who certainly sufferred under the English, and therefore despised the British.

The German language lost out in Congress by one vote in being declared an official language of the US. All their business was conducted in German, and if you ever see some old TV programs of Lawrence Welk, you will notice he has a German accent...yet he was born and raised here.

We didn't have to help Britain in WW I, but taking into account that most of our politicians were predominantly British descent, we were helping her before we entered by sending arms to Britain. That's why the Lusitania was sunk.

After it was sunk, the Germans businesses were stoned (American crystalnacht), so they stopped using German, and changed their last names.

Now to understand the hypocrisy of it, our ambassador to Germany who was anti-German, said after we had entered the war that we must punish Sweden for sending food to Germany. In other words, it was okay for us as a neutral nation to send arms to Germany, yet it was not okay for neutral Sweden to send food to Germany.

Now another little tidbit. Around 1927 Britain was considering going to war with us. Why? Because our fleet was becoming greater than hers and she was being threatened.

It seems after I heard that, that I began to think of our friendship with Britain as a little one sided. Well thank heaven for Tony Blair. Gratitude at last.

Zenovia

Not quite [straightdope.com] .

What I was drawing atention to was the terrible 'others' out there in previous postings.
There were 'Black shirt' all over the world and there were many riots fought out in the streets between left and right all over the world, even in Australia. Many of the occupied countries provided willing servants of the occupiers who held the same political views. To single out the terrible "English" as the great racists is to distort history. Racism as I pointed out happens the world over. As the postings were by Americans i provided a few local examples of that. Here in my own country we have a terible history of racism that would rival that of the USA and south Africa put together. As for the Americans who aquired the assests of in the USA owned by British companies who were required to surrender them to pay for the British war effort. The Oil industry and cattle industry were areas with huge British ownership. With Britain alone fighting Hitler it is natural that those British would hope someone (anyone) would come to their aid. It was a fluke they were not invaded temselves when the real fighting started. It is also natural that malcontents would point out that the American are seen as coming in later and only when they were attacked and Germany declared war on the USA (so they did have to). Everyone else was pleased with a better late than never attitude and gave the USA troops a great welcome. As for anything going to happen in 1927...come off it. they were not ready for war in 1939 when it started and why they would attack an friend is beyond me. The 1920s were a period of huge disruption in amny countries and Britain (England included) was very busy dealing with this problem. When the War was over Britain was bankrupt. British people were still not allowed to take more that 50 Pounds out of the Country until the late 60s.

Dear DJS,

The truth is that the were plenty of Germans in this country, and the one's I knew had one parent that was descended way back from Germans, and another parent that came from Germany. In other words, they continuously intermarried.

...And here it was Benjamin FRanklin that said he was fearful that the very character of the country would change because of the German immigrants. And that was then.

But we also have to consider all the beer barons in St. Louis and Milwaukee and their patrons. Why even Flatbush in Brooklyn was German as was parts of upper Manhattan.

Not that it matters! Did you know that Greek was considered to become an official language at one time? I had heard it lost by one vote, and later by three. I also heard it was because of Daniel Webster. He claimed that enough Greek words were incoporated into the English language that Greek was not necessary.

Or so I heard.....(You really don't think I'm going to go to the trouble to look it up).

Zenovia

Dorohi Pavel Ivanovich,

I think you are reading things that aren't there. The English haven't been "singled out." We are discussing one particular historical situation in which a number of Ethnic groups played their own unique role. It is not a distortion of history to state the truth. And to say that the English were racist is not an exclusive statement. In other words the statement says nothing about other historical contexts in which other racists did various things.

It's not like anyone here has said: "The English are racist and *no one* else is."

Of course there are many many instances of genocide, ethnic cleansing, and one can discuss each of these in turn. Certainly the U.S. has had its own racist troubles and issues. The one strength that I see in the U.S. is the fact that everyone is a fairly recent immigrant here in the history of Homo Sapiens Sapiens and no one can claim the land in the way Asians, Africans or Eurasions or Europeans might.

If the shoe fits wear it. Otherwise all I can say is it seems "the lady doth protest too much!"

The British after WW 2 refused to let certain Slavs settle in Britain with the knowledge that they faced execution in the East. Another fact of history.

Dear Pavel you said:

" To single out the terrible "English" as the great racists is to distort history. Racism as I pointed out happens the world over. As the postings were by Americans i provided a few local examples of that. Here in my own country we have a terible history of racism that would rival that of the USA and south Africa put together."

I say:

Actually, for all the racism in the English speaking world, it must have been a lot worse in non-English speaking countries. I say this because I know of people immigrating freely and willingly to England, America, Australia and S. Africa, and yet one rarely hears of people immigrating to France, Germany, Austria, etc...or at least not to the same extent.

As for the USA, I have read letters from people in the North in pre civil war days, and they said that the laxity the slave owners put up with, they would never had endured from their servants. Also they said the blacks themselves knew that they had it quite good in comparison to the suffering of the blacks in the English islands of the Caribbean.

So don't listen to the complaints being given out on our media. Do you know that a black can have lower grades than a white person, and yet be accepted by a university that will not accept the white person. We have reverse racism here you know.

Actually what I think is going on in other nations, is that they are reflecting their own cultural prejudices and thereby magnifying whatever they hear is occuring here.

For example: I know one country that treats it's servants like slaves and in a way any American would find abhorent. Their indifference, lack of respect and plain cruelty is unbelievable, and yet they are the first to make comments about us as being insensitive and mean. Then again we have only to look at the French. haven't they been the most critical of us, and yet is there any Muslim or black in France in a position of power?

Zenovia

Dear Bob you said:

"I also heard that Fr. Musallam at the Holy Family Latin Rite Church in Gaza invited Mahmoud Zahar of Hamas to his church for a community meeting. Everything went well. Fr. Musallam has been a past supporter of Hamas."

I say:

I heard today about the attack on a church in Lebanon because of the cartoons. I had been worried these past days about the Christians in the Palestinian areas.

Is there any information you can give us?

Zenovia

This is a surprisingly ignorant statement that demonstrates your own biases Zenovia. You point to letters by Northerners as if there's some authority in the source -- as if somehow the fact of these letters are evidence of "truth". Who cares what Whites in the North had to say about what the "Blacks knew" or what the Blacks experienced as servants to the Southern Whites. To understand what the blacks knew and experienced you should ask the Blacks themselves. Have you ever done that? Have you ever talked to a descendant of Slaves or read the writings of former slaves and their children?