www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Even theOrthodox Have Problems

Dear All:

Institutionally, the Catholic Church in the U.S. is confronting this problem seriously.

Since the scandals broke out, the USCCB has done these things:

http://www.usccb.org/ocyp/index.htm

These may not be the panacea, but the Church is trying her darndest best!

Amado

It is interesting to see "you don't know what really happened, and how respected everyone is" comments to justify the Orthodox situation. People have said the same about Cardinal Law. Once again, I submit, the situation seems more an anger towards Catholicism, and using it as a means to attack Catholics, in your posts. Otherwise you would begin to see how you responded is exactly how Catholics who have defended various situations within the Church have answered the situation.

You want it both ways.

I can't speak for the whole Orthodox church, but I will say that my own ruling bishop(I've been under his omophorion for over 20 years) had to deal with a Monastic priest who was a pedophile here in Michigan.There was no recycling of the priest, no "three strikes, you're out!" The man was deposed from the priesthood per order of the Synod of Bishops.I would hope that the majority of Orthodox or Catholic hierarchs would act similarly.

I have thought, over the years, that the Church would be perfect if you could just get rid of the people. Since that won't happen, I guess I will just have to live with the imperfections of some of its members, and pray for them and those they harm. I will have to include my own imperfections in that, also. Perfection exists in Heaven, but I doubt that I will find it here on Earth. It's really sad that all the incidences of abuse have happened, but happen they did. It's kind of like war. You care for the wounded and march on to defeat the enemy.

Dear Henry,

Well, God knows what happens in every situation, including in this communication with you and the nature of my heart and mind as well as my intentions implicit in my post. You are wrong in your quote and assumption regarding my disposition relative to the matter. Quote: "Once again, I submit, the situation seems more an anger towards Catholicism, and using it as a means to attack Catholics, in your posts." I would be among those who would be very merciful to the Orthodox or Catholic faithful and any victims in support with a zero tolerance policy which I have seen in place and working within the Orthodox Church during the course of my life and I understand the Roman Catholic Church is now working on. There is no Orthodox situation to justify which is comparable to the current Roman Catholic situation as you are stating. Although there are people who would no doubt seek money from either the Roman Catholic Church or Orthodox Church. Some even try to frame bishops. There is cunning gypsy group that is notorious for this. In fact, I know of a very dear Priest who had to work with the F.B.I. to assist in the capturing and prosecution of the aforementioned. By the way he is not Orthodox but in communion with Rome and certainly very beloved by me. I have seen him stand up for what is right numerous times. Once again I don't agree with your thinking or conclusions. I would hope that we could agree that whenever and wherever such pathetic behavior occurs for the sake of the children everything that could be done should be done to stop any further abuse. I'm sorry that you see my comments as some sort of an attack on Catholics, that seems to be a limited way of looking at it by me anyway.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

Matthew,

Priests are still men. They still have to use the toilet like everyone else. Deification, not divinization, is everyone's goal.

I am sorry that my limited understanding of the priestly culture and seminary life shows. What would I know?

Joe

Dear Joe,

Here are some words from Saint John Chrysostom who knows more then you and is certainly known as the golden mouth.

4. For the priestly office is indeed discharged on earth, but it ranks amongst heavenly ordinances; and very naturally so: for neither man, nor angel, nor archangel, nor any other created power, but the Paraclete Himself, instituted this vocation, and persuaded men while still abiding in the flesh to represent the ministry of angels. Wherefore the consecrated priest ought to be as pure as if he were standing in the heavens themselves in the midst of those powers. Fearful, indeed, and of most awful import, were the things which were used before the dispensation of grace, as the bells, the pomegranates, the stones on the breastplate and on the ephod, the girdle, the mitre, the long robe, the plate of gold, the holy of holies, the deep silence within.1 But if any one should examine the things which belong to the dispensation of grace, he will find that, small as they are, yet are they fearful and full of awe, and that what was spoken concerning the law is true in this case also, that "what has been made glorious hath no glory in this respect by reason of the glory which excelleth."2 For when thou seest the Lord sacrificed, and laid upon the altar,3 and the priest standing and praying over the victim, and all the worshippers empurpled with that precious blood,4 canst thou then think that thou art still amongst men, and standing upon the earth? Art thou not, on the contrary, straightway translated to Heaven, and casting out every carnal thought from the soul, dost thou not with disembodied spirit and pure reason contemplate the things which are in Heaven? Oh! what a marvel! what love of God to man! He who sitteth on high with the Father is at that hour held in the hands of all,5 and gives Himself to those who are willing to embrace and grasp Him. And this all do through the eyes of faith!6 Do these things seem to you fit to be despised, or such as to make it possible for any one to be uplifted against them?

Would you also learn from another miracle the exceeding sanctity of this office? Picture Elijah and the vast multitude standing around him, and the sacrifice laid upon the altar of stones, and all the rest of the people hushed into a deep silence while the prophet alone offers up prayer: then the sudden rush of fire from Heaven upon the sacrifice:-these are marvellous things, charged with terror. Now then pass from this scene to the rites which are celebrated in the present day; they are not only marvellous to behold, but transcendent in terror. There stands the priest, not bringing down fire from Heaven, but the Holy Spirit: and he makes prolonged supplication,7 not that some flame sent down from on high may consume the offerings, but that grace descending on the sacrifice may thereby enlighten the souls of all, and render them more refulgent than silver purified by fire. Who can despise this most awful mystery, unless he is stark mad and senseless? Or do you not know that no human soul could have endured that fire in the sacrifice, but all would have been utterly consumed, had not the assistance of God's grace been great.

5. For if any one will consider how great a thing it is for one, being a man, and compassed with flesh and blood, to be enabled to draw nigh to that blessed and pure nature, he will then clearly see what great honor the grace of the Spirit has vouchsafed to priests; since by their agency these rites are celebrated, and others nowise inferior to these both in respect of our dignity and our salvation. For they who inhabit the earth and make their abode there are entrusted with the administration of things which are in Heaven, and have received an authority which God has not given to angels or archangels. For it has not been said to them, "Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven, and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven."8 They who rule on earth have indeed authority to bind, but only the body: whereas this binding lays hold of the soul and penetrates the heavens; and what priests do here below God ratifies above, and the Master confirms the sentence of his servants. For indeed what is it but all manner of heavenly authority which He has given them when He says, "Whose sins ye remit they are remitted, and whose sins ye retain they are retained?"9 What authority could be greater than this? "The Father hath committed all judgment to the Son?"10 But I see it all put into the hands of these men by the Son. For they have been conducted to this dignity as if they were already translated to Heaven, and had transcended human nature, and were released from the passions to which we are liable. Moreover, if a king should bestow this honor upon any of his subjects, authorizing him to cast into prison whom he pleased and to release them again, he becomes an object of envy and respect to all men; but he who has received from God an authority as much greater as heaven is more precious than earth, and souls more precious than bodies, seems to some to have received so small an honor that they are actually able to imagine that one of those who have been entrusted with these things will despise the gift. Away with such madness! For transparent madness it is to despise so great a dignity, without which it is not possible to obtain either our own salvation, or the good things which have been promised to us. For if no one can enter into the kingdom of Heaven except he be regenerate through water and the Spirit, and he who does not eat the flesh of the Lord and drink His blood is excluded from eternal life, and if all these things are accomplished only by means of those holy hands, I mean the hands of the priest, how will any one, without these, be able to escape the fire of hell, or to win those crowns which are reserved for the victorious?


Here is the complete link if you would like to continue on from the beginning. http://stmaryofegypt.org/fathers2/NPNF1-09/npnf1-09-05.htm#P266_79483

In Christ,
Matthew Panchisin

Matthew,

Again, I apologize. I would be the last to know what priests are all about or what goes into their formation.

Thank you for sharing with me the words from the Golden Mouth. St. John Chrysostom's writing on the Priesthood gives a description of a person who is out of this world. I would consider myself so unworthy to receive the Holy Gifts from such a person.

Joe