www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Italo-Greek GREEKs

The most recent "Orthodox Observer", the publication of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, has a wonderful article on the Patriarch's visit to the Greek community of southern Italy. There are pictures of the churches, the communities, etc.

Are there any real Italo-Greek Greeks around here in North America?

There is a mission in Las Vegas, NV.

Joe

Dear Dr. John, I saw the article in the Observer. The newspaper of the Greek Orthodox Diocese of Pittsburgh, The Illuminator, (Jan.-May,2001, Vol. XXII,No.123) has even more extensive coverage. Metropolitan Maximos accompagnied the Patriarch on that visit. As far as "true" Italo-Greeks--my understanding would be that most in the U.S. are descendants of immigrants from the Italo-Albanian towns of Southern Italy and Sicily. Even though there are Greek dialect speaking villages Calabria and Apulia, those Italo-Greeks were absorbed long ago into Latin-rite Catholicism. So, Our Lady of Grace Byzantine Catholic Mission of Staten Island and the group in Vegas are of Italo-Albanian origin. I believe, the Monastery of Grottaferrata outside of Rome, founded by the Italo-Greek saint, Neilos, is primarily Italo-Albanian.

Saint Nilo of Calabria, pray for us.
Vito

There may be a mission in Staten Island too. byzantines.net might host their site.

Serge

<A HREF="http://oldworldrus.com">Old World Rus�</A>

You�re right, Vito, they are Albanians. Thanks.

Serge

"Are there any real Italo-Greek Greeks around here in North America?"

Yes!
Our Lady of Wisdom Byzantine Catholic church in Las Vegas, Nv. has several real Italo-Greek GREEKS in the parish. Our sign in front of our church even used to say 'Our Lady of Wisdom Italo-Greek Church' but too many people thought you had to speek Italian or Greek in order to attend the Divine Liturgies....so our priest, Fr. Francis Vivona, had to changed to say Byzantine Catholic.

And Dr. John, I did not get a chance to respond to you before due to the hectic schedule of our Mt. Carmel celebration but you had mentioned that you may be in Las Vegas in August...if you are and if you have a chance to come to Our Lady, please ask after me. It would be an honor to meet you.

Thanks and God Bless,
Miryam

Dear Miryam, Even though I am not (as far as I know) of Italo-Greek or Italo-Albanian heritage, I am a member of Our Lady of Grace Society of Staten Island, N.Y. I am Roman Catholic, but also am a member of a Byzantine Catholic parish where I pray the Sunday Divine Liturgy. My interest is preserving the religious and cultural treasures of Calabria and Southern Italy. I am aware of Our Lady of Wisdom in Vegas. I pray that your church grows under the mantle of Our Lady. Can you be more specific about parishoners of Italo-Greek back ground versus Italo-Albanian? Also, would love to hear about your personal background if you care to share. We just celebrated for the 106th time in my little hometown the festa of Our Lady of Mount Carmel.
Glory be to Jesus Christ!
Vito

Shalom, Vito!

"I pray that your church grows under the mantle of Our Lady."
Thank you and God Bless you for your prayers.

And you asked:
"Can you be more specific about parishoners of Italo-Greek back ground versus Italo-Albanian?"
Well, I must admit I really don't know much about Italo-Albanians to really give any specifics of any differences or similarities, the only thing I really do know is that these people are very, very proud of their Italo-Greek heritage and are struggling to keep the traditions alive in this country. I would like to learn more though about Italo-Albanians...please e-mail me. I think my address is in my profile.

" Also, would love to hear about your personal background if you care to share."
Yikes!!
No, I don't mind sharing. Not very interesting, sorry to say. I am a mix of all sorts...really! My heritage is Irish, Welsh, Scottish and a bit of French.
I was raised in Ohio as a 'proud' protestant-
Disciples of Christ and my grandfather was a Presbyterian minister and now I live in Las Vegas and have recently converted to be a very, very happy Byzantine Catholic! I am still new in the faith and am a willing student! (hint hint)

God Bless,
Miryam

Dr. John,

Archimandrite Francis Vivona is an Italo-Greek, not an Italo-Albanian, as he is quick to point out. So yes, there are at least a few authentic Italo-Greeks in the US.

The history of this Church is interesting. Sicily and Southern Italy were part of Greater Greece and had a flourishing Byzantine/Greek culture. It switched hands from the Patriarchate of Rome to Constantinople in the 8th century and back to Rome in the 11th century when the Normans conquered the region. They replaced the Byzantine bishops with Latin ones and the Church was being slowly Latinized and absorbed until a migration of Albanians in the 15th century reinforced the Byzantine heritage of the remaining Greeks. This was supported by the Pope. In the 16th century the Pontifical Greek College was founded and they were given an ordaining bishop. In the 18th century they were given two seminaries. Finally, in 1919, the Eparchy of Lungro was erected. In 1937 the Eparchy of Piana was erected and the Monastery of Grottaferrata, founded in 1004, was given the status of an Exarchy.

It is also important to remember that the Albanian Church was dominated by the Greek Church, a situation that still exists. Greek was the liturgical language. Albanian wasn't used until recently, so when they immigrated to Italy it was no big deal that Greek continued to be the liturgical language. The two ethinc groups seem to have merged fairly well and become a truly Italo-Byzantine Church whose members spoke Italian and Greek and/or Albanian, used Greek as their liturgical language, and proudly remembered their heritage as evidenced by last names like Albano and Greco.

In Christ,
Lance, deacon candidate

Dear Friends, Here is the website for those wanting to know more about the Italo-Greeks and Italo-Albanians: www.Byzantines.net/OurLadyofGrace/ [byzantines.net]

Vito

Thanks for the info, folks. I'm kind of overwhelmed that in this Byzcath Slavic enclave that there would be a closet-ghetto of Italo-Greek-Albanian progeny.

I would love to visit the parish in Las Vegas. My schedule at work has been changed from Las Vegas. For August I get to go to lovely San Antonio, Texas. In August. Heat. Humidity. But at least the food will be great. (Hey, I'm Greek. I LOVE food, drink and a whole mess of friends around a table.) And my potential visit to the mission in Austin will be moved to early September. (I hope I can get there for liturgy.)

Could I ask how the mission/parish(?) in Staten Island is going? When are liturgies there? (It's only a 5 hour drive from here in Washington.)

Blessings! (Next Italo-Greek-Albanian frame: Recipes!!!)

Dr John,

You and this food thing!

Ever have any eats and treats made by Coptic Christians? Most excellent!

Miryam,

Got to meet your pastor, Fr Francis Vivona. A wonderful man and spiritually energetic. I hope he shares some Italo-Greek recipes with you folks.


Joe



[This message has been edited by Joe Thur (edited 07-19-2001).]

Dear Dr. John, If you go to the website on my previous post there is information as to when and where the Divine Liturgy is celebrated. There is a phone number and email address. I'm sure that Archdeacon John DeMeis would be glad to send you a copy of the newsletter.
Vito

Dear Dr. John, May I recommend two books: "Monasticism and Spirituality of the Italo-Greeks" by David Paul Hester. Published by the Patriarchal Institute for Patristic Studies Thessaloniki, Greece. 1991. Archdeacon John may be able to get you a copy. The other is, "Nilus of Rossano-Beseiged by the Divine" by Gaetano Passarelli. (2001) Eastern Christian Publications, PO Box 146, Fairfax, VA 22030-0146 Email: jackfigel@compuserve.com
This is a narrative recreation of the life of St. Nilus, the most famous monk of the Italo-Greek church.
Vito

Mille grazie, care Vito! I did go to the website, and if I ever get the time to get to NY, I'll be sure to visit the parish.

I am also hoping to get to Las Vegas, but my business trip got canned (until next June).

I wonder if the parishes in NY and Las Vegas have any relationships with the local Greek Orthodox parishes? There are obviously Greek Orthodox parishes in those cities.

(Right now, I'm in Green Bay, Upper Wisconsin. According to the Yellow Pages, in this German/French enclave, there is an OCA parish and -- of course -- a Greek Orthodox one. Greeks go EVERYWHERE and open restaurants or take over the wholesale food distribution. And people wonder how the Greeks raise tons of money from their food festivals. Ever heard of 'wholesale' and 'special deals'? Hint: when having a parish festival, go to the local Greek wholesaler, tell 'em you're an ethnic Eastern parish, and I'll wager you get a deal. Just promise to advertise the business in the festival program, or a thanks in the bulletin.)

Blessings! And discounts for the church!