www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Islamophobia

Just as zoroasterianism is a very different faith, so, too, islam should be approached...I personally find much more "good feelings" and "accord" between buddhism and Christianity. The Dalai Lama in his ethical presentation speaks much more directly to me than the mullahs in London, Cairo, Mecca, Tehran or Jerusalem...

"Allah" [please have the courtesy to capitalize] is Arabic for "God"; it was used by Arab pagans; it is used by Muslims; it is used by Arabic Christians and Jews. To dismiss Islam as no better than paganism because it uses a term that predates strict monotheism is like saying that because "God" is the generic Germanic term for Divinity therefore religions using the term cannot be worshipping the Holy One of Israel.
Granted, Muslims think we are polytheists; the Holy Trinity is a great Mystery, and those to whom it is not revealed cannot understand it. But the Jews also think we are polytheists, are also scandalized by the idea that God has a Son.

Again, the Catholic Church officially teaches that Islam worships the One God of Abraham, albeit imperfectly.
-Daniel

And I wonder that you find more affinity in Buddhism than Islam. Buddhism teaches that the world and the self are illusory and is at best agnostic. Granted, and it is to their credit, they have a well-developed ethos of compassion, but they are far from biblical monotheism.
-D

I only capitalize God, and, no, their religion has little in common. Whether or not they accuse us of being polytheists is irrelevent, as arian survivals were long ago condemned...In general, they need to be evangelized. Now, Buddhism as an ascetic discipline in many ways an echo of Orthodoxy, but, yes, the inpersonal aspect of their eschatology/theology is troubling. Then again the personal aspect of islam tends to be disturbing when taken to its logical conclusion...

Kollyvas,

For your information with an Antiochian Orthodox priest as my best friend, the Orthodox use "Allah" in the Arabic venacular for prayer and liturgy. Using the lower case no matter what you may think of Isalm is to demean God acccording to Orthodox teaching for this is the same as putting Theos in Greek in the lower case, and Borgzhe (excuse my misspelling) in Slavonic in the lower case.

Father Anthony+

Bless Father.

In an Orthodox or Christian context, I am quite happy to add the necessary capitalization. But islam is not a faith system related to my own so any pro forma response from me would not be sincere...especially when one considers the relationship islam has had with Orthodoxy. Besides in Arabic it isn't capitalized.

Buy we are speaking English here; the usual courtesies and rules apply.
So you will capitalize a Germanic name for Divinity but not an Arabic one, unless it is used by Orthodox Christians?
Do you refuse to capitalize Jewish references to God?
They also do not believe in the Trinity, or in the Divinity of Christ Our Lord; are they also infidels?
It seems to me that your arguments against Islam worshipping the One God also apply to the Jews...
-D

Well as a priest I would find it offensive for a word that has no distinction for faiths to be used in the demeaning lower case. Especially since it is used by Orthodox and Eastern Christians the same as it would be used by others that speak Arabic.

No, Jews do not have the same eschatology, concepts of sin and redemption, and theology as the moslems do. They don't understand the office of Prophet in the same way. Moreover, the self-contradictory nature of the koran as well as its dissonance with both the Old and New Testaments suggest a different Faith. No need to mention the atrocities associated with the inception of this faith. The Orthodox Faith is a perfect expression of the Old Testament faith of the Temple, which until Christ was the True Faith. islam is claimant to that tradition and applying political correctness in no way lends it legitimacy and is rather cynical. St John Damascene viewed it as a Christian heresy; likewise, St. Gregory Palamas approached it as distorted teaching. We need to deal with it from our perspective, not with diplomacies or concessions to error...every time I look upon Aghia Sophia I understand equanimity toward islam becomes a very one-sided endeavour, indeed.

Shlomo Kollyvas,

As an Arab speaking Christian, no matter what context the name of God is used, it is disrespectful.

Further, respect and civilized discourse says that we capitalize in our langauge proper names. As for your point about Arabic not capitalizing the name of God, your arguement is specious since there are not capitals letters in the alphabet.

Poosh BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

Exactly, it is not capitalized in Arabic. So, it shouldn't be an issue. From my Faith Tradition, we do not see that we worship the same God as the moslems. So, in essence, this capitalization involves an imposition on my conscious which is offensive...I mean no offense to Arab Christians who have suffered greatly at their hands.

http://www.geocities.com/umaximov/monc-eng.htm

monk Georgij
Debate that happened between the monk and three Moslem theologians

INTRODUCTION

In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, one God, Amen. With the help of God, we begin writing a debate that happened between the monk Georgi and three Moslem theologians, in the presence of the prince Al-Khana, Al-Mushar Abul-Mulk, Gazi Al-Zaher Usef Ibn Ayub Al-Salah, the Moslem King of Aleppo and Syria, and during the reign of Leo the Armenian, son of Etienne, King of the Armenian tribe, in October 6615 from our Father Adam and 1165 A.D. God help us! The story says that the Abbot of the convent of "St. Simon the Fisherman" paid a visit to the King of Aleppo and its dependencies. The Abbot was accompanied by some of his monks. The King welcomed them, gave orders to secure all their demands, and allowed them to stay at his father's tent. Among the followers of the Abbot was an old monk who was very versed in knowledge. He spoke very well, too. Everybody liked to listen to him. he entered the convent in his childhood and profited of the books there; he acquired the virtues and the good manners of the monks. He was Abbot for many years until he became old. he was called "the monk Georgi" (George). When he met the Prince, he invoked God for him. ...

Shlomo Kollyvas,

Please explane to me exactly? Since the language does not have capitalization in it that does not apply to our language. Using your logic, then China should never be capitalized since they use a pictorial system that does not denote capitalization.

Let expand your logic further, since I am an Arab speaking Christian, you should never capitalize the name of God when addressing me, or any other Arab speaking Christian since no where does Arabic use capitalization.

Further, if you truly follow your faith tradition then you would follow the leadership of your faith, which Capitalize both Islam, Muslim, and Allah. In a speech by His All Holiness, Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew at the London School of Ecomonics (which I hope you have noticed I have capitalized his title even though I disagree with his and other Orthodox dissent from full Church unity with the Pope) which was titled: "[T]he Role Religion in a changing Europe" this past 3 November 2005, he used the term Muslim 5 times capitalized, and Islam 3 times capitalized in his published speech. I can also, show the same thing from the Patriarch of Moscow, of the Sebian Church, and the Georgian Church.

Now I leave to you, that these honorable and learned men either have no conscious since they see nothing wrong with appropriate capitalization, or that you are placing your prejudice ahead of your Christian values.

Also, just an FYI, most Middle Eastern Christians have a long and troubled history with Eastern Orthodoxy. It is only just recently that the pain inflicted by that Church on Middle Eastern Christians has been put to rest. The major reason that Islam was able to conquer the Middle East and North Africa is because the Byzantine Empire and Church were despised by Middle Eastern Christians, and it was felt that it would be better to live under Islam masters instead of the repression of the Byzantines.

Poosh BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

(Inasmuch as Fr. Ambrose in this article capitalizes "Allah," if asked I accede. I meant no offense to Arabic Christians, and if any were taken, I am heartily sorry...)

http://www.roca.org/OA/158/158n.htm

...Islam's fatal flaw, of course, is that it worships a false god. Ecumenists would have us believe that all religions are basically the same, and that if we would only lay aside the interpretations, traditions, and other human accretions that create our differences, we could all stand on common ground. This, certainly, is the vision of proponents of the New World Order. As Christians, however, we cannot subscribe to such a monstrous proposition, for it would be tantamount to denying Christ. Holy Scripture says plainly: Christ and the Father are One (John 10:30), and Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father (I John 2:23). Christ Himself is the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father except by Him (John 14:6). In Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily (Col. 2:9). Our faith in Christ and His words is supported by numerous prophecies, by the evidence of miracles, by His divine Incarnation of a virgin, His Resurrection and ascension, and by countless manifestations of His love for mankind. Islam has no comparable testimony to offer. It is a composite religion based on one man's alleged revelations about a strange god, a god who has done nothing for man's redemption and salvation. ...

I am saddened that "Byzantines" are so easily hated and mohammedans so easily absolved...