www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Snobs being an obstacle for the Unity of the catholics and orthodox

Hello users,
i would always like to began with this quote in such a topic.
"The Church is the kingdom of Heaven on earth.
He who has divided it has sinned.
And he who has rejoiced from its division has also sinned.
I am happy: do not fear, I am with you.
In you I shall educate My generation."

begin*

That's not nice to call the Catholic Church a bunch of snobs...since they divided themselves from the Orthodox Faith.

Dear Job,

Well, perhaps no one intentionally did that.

But, ultimately, the Eastern Church accepted the Pope of Rome as the first bishop of the Church for almost a millennium.

In other words, that comes from apostolic times.

For me, the litmus test of "ultimate Orthodoxy and Catholicity" is whether a Church is in communion with the See of Peter of Elder Rome.

If we say that we are not in communion because the Pope fell into heresy etc. - does this not contradict the teaching of Christ that:

1) He will build His Church on the Rock of Peter and the faith of Peter in Christ; and

2) That He will be with this Church always, together with the Holy Spirit, to lead it into all truth?

Alex

hey Job,

I'm catholic, i didn't call the catholic church a bunch of snobs. I reffered to the snobs within both churches the orthodox and catholic.

Sorry about not being clear in my statement

God Bless

I think the ecumenical councils are clear...there is NO Orthodox Church that could claim otherwise...However, what is meant by first bishop...from an eastern perspective that is simply 1st among equals...the bishops are like the supreme court...there is a chief justice but he does not have infallable or unquestionable authority...rather he helps with guidance but he can not over rule a decision he doesn't like (thank the Good Lord)

I don't see a contridiction.
It's more a matter of perspective.

People, (especially job)
Let us forget about the past and all those nonsense divisions, and start meaning for unity.

Charbel,

How do you define a snob?

Is it a person who is so full of himself that he has no humility?

A person who fancies himself learned because he knows about the present, but who has no concept of the past?

A person who fancies himself learned because he knows about the past, but who has no concept of the present?

A person who believes his traditions are the best way?

A person who believes his traditions are the only way?

A person who is not willing to compromise on his faith or its traditions?

What type of person do you believe to be the greatest obstacle to unity?

Wondering,

The Snobs who think that they are the best and righteous and everybody else is wrong.

Cheers

Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. What caused the divisions in the past are what continue to keep the church divided. I for one would love to see the Roman Catholic Church change their ecclesiology and return to the csynodal system. However, realistically, that ain't happening in the near future, as much as some would like to believe it is.

Job

Nobody stayed 100% right since then, so i suggest that we all blend our faiths and traditions to form one united christianity. Job, Stop pointing at different christian sects accusing them of being off-track because u might be one of them! Nobody knows

You are absolutely right. Nobody knows. However, we can see that synodal governance has its roots back at Apostolic times right in Acts itself.

A comment like this says you are probably not Roman Catholic or eastern Orthodox. What religion are you if you don't mind my asking?

Dear Job,

Charbel's profile says that he is a Maronite Catholic from Lebanon.

Both Catholic and Orthodox Christians in Lebanon enjoy a wonderful unity in their hearts--one which is a shining example of what we should all aspire to...

We should therefore respect his opinions from the perspective of the blessed reality he lives in--a reality which is also a practical vision in that it exists in the majority Muslim Middle East.

United we stand. Divided we fall.

In Christ,
Alice, Moderator

Dear Job,

I believe that the most complete Church is the Orthodox Church. By complete I mean it contains within it's spiritual worship the totality of one's spiritual attainment towards theosis. That though does not mean that the individual's within it have attained a higher degree of that spiritual attainment than individuals in other Churches. It only means that they 'can' attain a higher degree.

Also, it does not mean though that the souls of the few acquiring that high degree in the Orthodox Church, is worth more than the many, many others within other Churches that have attained some levels of spiritual growth and attainment. A degree that can be way above and beyond the level of many within the Orthodox Church.

As for the Pope, he cannot err if he is the visible head of the Church, and by no means can we consider that the RCC is not the Church... no more than we can consider that the Orthodox Church is not the 'Church'. The Church in it's totality encompasses all who follow Christ....but some with lesser fullness such as the Protestant, and some with more fullness, such as our sacramental Churches.

The Pope is not only the head of the RCC, but of the Church throughout the world. By that I mean even the Protestant denominations. This is attested by the fact that when something is established by the Pope, it becomes the 'totality' of Christian moral belief. Without him, the Christian world...and perhaps even the whole world, would lose it's moral compass.

Because of this reality, there has to be a high spiritual element in his position.

Zenovia