www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall About Vassula Ryden

I don't know if this is the right place to talk about this but I really wan t to know your opinion about this Greek Orthodox mystic's experiences. The interesting fact is that she comes from the GOC.
We all know that the Greek Church is very conservative and doesn't like this kind of things, but some Greek bishops had had interviews with her and some of them accept what she says.

Recently the PuertoRican archbishop (Roman) publicaly condemned what he thought is "false ecumenism", and "neo-protestant" teachings (this is not new in this archbishop, as he previously said that the Italian mystic Giorgio Bongiovani was a Satanic man), but she has been received with respect in Mexico and other Catholic and protestant nations (USA, Europe...).

What do you think?

Dunno anything about her. Links?

Sharon


Sharon Mech, SFO
Cantor & sinner
sharon@cmhc.com

You may try www.tlig.org [tlig.org]

If she is Greek, she must be perfect.

Being that she is an Alexandrian Greek, as long as she does not claim to be the reincarnation of Cleopatra, it only seems fair to be charitable in her case.

"You shall know them by their fruits."

But, I believe since she is/was only a nominal Orthodox Christian ( and evidenlty was not catechized ), she certainly shouldn't be considered a spokesperson for Orthodoxy.

That--by no means--would illegitimate her ministry which seems to be a simple interpretation of the Gospel; mere Christianity, as the late CS Lewis might describe her message.

I do not think one should be quick to judge the prophetic ministry of women.

ER

[ 03-18-2002: Message edited by: Ephraim Reynolds ]

http://web.frontier.net/Apparitions/vas_rome.html

http://www.vassula.org/

http://www.krotov.org/engl/1993/ryden.html

Maybe she's not well known in the USA.

[ 03-18-2002: Message edited by: Remie ]

.....On the other hand...."You shall know them by their fruits."

It probably is a good thing that she is not well known in America.

She certainly is new to me. One would have to wonder if she truly knows herself?

She seems to be a bit confused about more than just a few issues.

ER

[ 03-18-2002: Message edited by: Ephraim Reynolds ]

Dear Ephraim,

While I am of the view that one must always "beware of Greeks bearing gifts" , I think it is important to give Vassula the benefit of the doubt and see where this all goes.

I read the beautiful article by the Swedish Lutheran on her site, and if people of that high spiritual calibre, I mean Lutherans who have attained to devotion to the Most Holy Theotokos et al, can be positive about Vassula, then I'm willing to hear her out and pray with her!

I once met a fellow, a reformed drug addict who was stabbed and left for dead.

He now prays three hours beginning at 4 am and heals people with prayer. He has the support of his Bishop and Diocese. I've seen him perform miracles of healing with a Crucifix and prayer. Oil drips from this man's hands.

When I spoke with him, he could tell me every detailed thought of mine as I was thinking them right there and then.

God works through His servants, and so does the Evil One.

But the Crucifix and Holy Water are things that are foreign to evil.

Alex

Sorry I can't give any links here

However I do remember a lot of questions about her on EWTN Q&A. If my memory serves me correctly the responses were not favourable - but please don't quote me on that.

I have tried doing a search tonight - but it's not co-operating !

Have managed to find this passage. With apologies for the length but when I attempted to make a link for it , I couldn't so ahve ahd to paste it in

NOTIFICATION ON VASSULA RYDEN (6 October 1995)
Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Many bishops, priests, religious and lay people have sought an authoritative judgement from this Congregation on the activity of Mrs. Vassula Ryden, a Greek Orthodox residing in Switzerland, who in speech and in writing is spreading in Catholic circles throughout the world messages attributed to alleged heavenly revelations.
A calm, attentive examination of the entire question, undertaken by this Congregation in order to "test the spirits to see whether they are of God" (cf. 1 Jn 4:1), has brought out-in addition to positive aspects - a number of basic elements that must be considered negative in the light of Catholic doctrine.
In addition to pointing out the suspect nature of the ways in which these alleged revelations have occurred, it is necessary to underscore several doctrinal errors they contain.
Among other things, ambiguous language is used in speaking of the Persons of the Holy Trinity, to the point of confusing the specific names and functions of the Divine Persons. These alleged revelations predict an imminent period when the Antichrist will prevail in the Church. In millenarian style, it is prophesied that God is going to make a final glorious intervention which will initiate on earth, even before Christ's definitive coming, an era of peace and universal prosperity. Furthermore, the proximate arrival is foretold of a Church which would be a kind of pan-Christian community, contrary to Catholic doctrine.
The fact that the aforementioned errors no longer appear in Ryden's later writings is a sign that the alleged "heavenly messages" are merely the result of private meditations.
Moreover, by habitually sharing in the sacraments of the Catholic Church even though she is Greek Orthodox, Mrs. Ryden is causing considerable surprise in various circles of the Catholic Church. She appears to be putting herself above all ecclesiastical jurisdiction and every canonical norm, and in effect, is creating an ecumenical disorder that irritates many authorities, ministers and faithful of her own Church, as she puts herself outside the ecclesiastical discipline of the latter.
Given the negative effect of Vassula Ryden's activities, despite some positive aspects, this Congregation requests the intervention of the Bishops so that their faithful may be suitably informed and that no opportunity may be provided in their Dioceses for the dissemination of her ideas. Lastly, the Congregation invites all the faithful not to regard Mrs. Vassula Ryden's writings and speeches as supernatural and to preserve the purity of the faith that the Lord has entrusted to the Church.
Vatican City, 6 October 1995.

Dear Alex,

I will take your good advice.

"Oh me...oh my...of such little faith!" I am such a nominalist.

God knows I would be much worse if I weren't a fan of Byzantine Forum.

Thanks for the advice.

I will pray for Vassula, although I would much rather dance with her....but not during Holy Lent.

Regards,

ER

Thanks, Remie, for the information. I will study it before uncharitably jumping to conclusions...again.

[ 03-18-2002: Message edited by: Ephraim Reynolds ]

Dear Angela,

Oh! I wasn't aware of the decision by Rome on Vassula.

In that case, as a Catholic, I submit to the judgement of Holy Mother Church.

(And, Ephraim, this doesn't mean you can't dance with her!).

Alex

I have documents in front of me with remarks by Card. Ratzinger, made after the "Notification", in an interview with one Niels Hvidt. In them, Hvidt asks the prelate if the Notification is a condemnation of her writings. Ratzinger responds: "No, the Notification is a warning, not a condemnation...What we say is that there are many things which are not clear...."

Basically, since she hasn't had an ecclesiastical trial in which she can present her views (according to procedure), she nor her writings have been condemned. It is only that the faithful should be prudent in promoting them and in believing them, since parts of them aren't terribly clear; in all things, they should place absolute faith in the public Divine Revelation.

Therefore, while it is entirely possible that the whole of her messages might be wrong and eventually condemned once things are tried, it is also entirely possible that, once they are tried, they will be found to be free from error, allowing people to believe with human faith that she is receiving messages from Our Lord Jesus Christ. A similar thing happened with regard to the diaries of Saint Faustina; mistranslations, misreadings, etc. caused the Divine Mercy message to not be promoted for a while. I'm not sure if they were actually condemned or not, but they were in some way silenced. Later on, the problems were resolved and the message got the Vatican's seal of approval. Perhaps it is the same with these messages; we should wait and see.

Before "sumbmitting to the judgement of Rome," one must be aware that this notification came from the CDF (Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith). However, it is not an official statement, but an opinion of certain unnamed members. For it to be official, it had to be signed by Cardinal Ratzinger. It was not. It was not signed by anyone. Vassula's writtings are still under review by Rome (volume 12 of the handwritten edition, published here in the USA, will soon be submitted).

Soon after this "document" came out, a group from Guadaljara met with Cardinal Ratzinger when he was in Mexico. He said that so long as they proceded slowly and with discernment, they were free to diseminate the messages.

Adam Kemner

[ 03-19-2002: Message edited by: akemner ]

Dear Adam and Catholicos,

I submit to whatever you say !

Alex

Friends:

Both the "Notification" (06 October 1995) quoted by Our Lady's slave for love (Angela of Glasgow) and the succeeding "clarification" more than a year later on 05 December 1966 of that
"Notification" regarding Mrs. Vassula Ryden were issued by the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith officially. Here are the links:

http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFRYDN1.HTM
http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFRYDN2.HTM