www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Vote: Should Parishes Have Freedom to do Fuller Antiphons & Litanies?

Dear UC, you might like to read the Alexander Schmemann article I linked to on the other thread. What are your criteria for liturgical integrity? What informs them?

Jeff,

Father Deacon Lance posted the prototype of the new translation in an older thread:

Prototype of New Liturgy Translation

Yes it does. When liturgical text is divorced from liturgical action, we set ourselves up for something other than worship.

Our church went through a phase when liturgical symbolism was a big hit. Our liturgy became a form of passion play with each part symbolizing an aspect taken from the Passion of the Christ or his life story.

This is all nice, but the Patriarch Euchytes(sp?) referred to such liturgically obsessed as "those who act stupidly."

The passion play takes on a life of its own at the expense of the liturgical action. Liturgy becomes something different than what it is intended to be.

You forget that the Church always looks back in time with one eye while looking forward with the other. Meaning of liturgical acts have a history.

I like the Antiphons too.

My rhetorical question about eliminating them was only to make a point. Many want to make a fuss over a part of liturgy that found its origins in a rite that we no longer take part in at the parochial level. So, what exactly is the purpose of the Antiphon besides chanting psalms? Do you get to take part in psalmody during vespers and matins every week?

Joe

Perhaps you meant 180 degrees? 360 would come around full circle to the same point one started.

Admittedly, there does seem to be some silliness to all this adjusting of litanies and prayers toward a goal of a certain time frame. As Jeff mentioned earlier, we have been celebrating abbreviated Liturgies for some time. I have recordings of "low" Liturgies from the 60's and early 70's as well as prayer books. The 1965 grey pew book uses the term "high liturgy only" for parts of the liturgy NO ONE would think of dropping today. Speak of highly abbreviated forms of liturgical worship! Thankfully there has been progress toward fuller and more proper celebration of Divine services over the years. It may not seem like much has happened when the magnification is so extremely high.,but when one steps back and looks at the broader picture over the last 50 years there has been considerable change for the better.

Steve

To a certain degree.

Going in circles.......groan :rolleyes:

Perhaps we should think of the question originally posed another way:

Have parishes had the freedom to do fuller antiphons and litanies?

Bishop Pataki has made a lot of changes to the liturgy. All of them are dumb. He has forbidden parishes to sing all the verses of the antiphons in the pew book. We used to have a paste in with the third antiphon and the beatitues. The beatitues are forbidden. We also used to take the litany before the Our Father. But he forbid that, too. That's why we are writing letters to the nuncio and to Rome. Everyone should write. The bishops don't care. Maybe Rome will care.

I would ask that you not judge all the bishops based on the actions of one. That might be a bit unfair.

The Pittsburgh Archeparchy puts on a face that it upholds Byzantine tradition when in fact it has been slowly but surely abandoning its very religious and cultural roots.
Ask the average parishioner what his/her ancestry is and you usually get Austrian rather than Rusyn or Ruthenian. Yet, what can one expect when the hierarchy has deliberately distanced itself from it's "mother" church in Europe.
Is there anyone who can save the Byzantine Catholic Church in America?
Frankly, the situation is both sad and frightening!

My ancestry is neither Austrian or from the land of Rus. I think that fidelity to tradition should not be confused with a particular ethnic heritage.

Dave Brown

So far the vote hangs around 90 per cent in favor of parishes having the freedom to do fuller liturgies.

Any comments by those who voted no as to their perspective?

Nec