www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Be alert to Islamic culture as seen on TV

Lawrence,

I always tell my students that Christianity has not done a very good job in raising the vision of Western society above the gutter and above crass materialism. Yet, Christian teaching strongly opposes a great deal that we take for granted in Western Culture. Nevertheless, Christians don't believe that killing people is a way to address these problems as at least some of Islam does.

If the Concord Institute (Pete Peterson, "Running on Empty") is correct we will spend ourselves into oblivion. If not, Islam may be the corrective hand to our debauchery.

I would rather see it be Christianity with an evangelical backbone. God and time will tell.

Dan L

Alice and Dan

I have no sympathy whatsoever for Islam. My point is that Islamic clerics often have an easy time convincing there followers that our country is evil, simply because our society has become so immoral. I think we're like the proverbial frog in the pot of boiling water, sadly not much seems to shock us anymore.

I heard an interesting interview on talk radio this morning with a young Christian woman from Lebanon, who pointed out that she and her family are not part of "the corrupt Western civilization" and yet have constantly been under attack by the Muslims in her country. She said we need to realize that the reason we're being attacked has nothing to do with our culture, our presence in Iraq, etc. - it's because we're INFIDELS.

That's the bottom line - it wouldn't matter how much we "cleaned up" our civilization. Not that it wouldn't be a good thing - just that it's not the primary reason we're being attacked.

I do agree that we would be attacked by the extremists anyway whether or not we were holy. But if we were holy, would there be a greater chance of converting some Muslims to Christianity? Or is conversion hopeless?

Conversions of Muslims to Christ is never hopeless but we must have a good deal more courage than we have. Such efforts will produce many deaths. All one needs to do is read the sad accounts that have accumulated over the centuries or ask some survivors in places like Egypt, Uganda, Somalia, or Sudan.

Dan L

Quite recently it was reported in the news that an Islamic court in Pakistan passed as judgment the gang rape of a woman as a punishment against her family. Apparently this is not an uncommon thing in that country.

Some Islamic clerics blessed and praised 9/11, openly or tacitly.

I don't buy the moral superiority argument.

The real battleground I believe will be Europe where through wholesale abandonment of Christianity and plunging birthrates they are in real danger of becoming the western Maghreb. It appears according to the news tonight that the London bombers were native Britons. I would be really uncomfortable if I was in that country right now.

Indeed...and so very, very sad and frightening.

In Christ, our Hope,
Alice

Lawrence's post was interesting, but I must disagree with its tone to great extent.


I would never would say that we have a perfect society and our society and laws do permit many bad and evil things. But we do have a society and laws where we have basic rights and where we can all go out and say, publicly, "I don't like abortion" and "I don't like euthanasia" and "I don't like [name your societal evil]" and make ourselves a force for GOOD in a secular society that permits people to demonstrate for causes both good and evil.

I am not a big fan of Muslim societies because they are not free in that way and many use religion as an excuse to work people into secular submission and dicatorship. A free society is always better than a dictatorship - if there is an enlightened despot in history other than in hypothetical enlightenment political literature, I have yet to see the real world evidence.

I have strong feelings about this. As many of you know, my young cousin was an American soldier killed by Taliban snipers in Afghanistan. I cried with joy the day those Afghanis - men and women - got to vote, because that's what this kid wanted more than anything - he re-enlisted after 9/11, not out of revenge (the odds of catching UBL anytime soon were always slim), but out of a sense of opportunity at helping the innocent Afghanis out. To see them have something like what we have and make their own choices and not to see widowed women and children starve because of some sicko's idea of what God wants in society.

God made us free to choose good and evil. Our role is to help people see - and choose - good. That is the role of the Christian in society. If we do not take up our role, then we fail.

Hummm ...

"God made us free to choose good and evil. Our role is to help people see - and choose - good. That is the role of the Christian in society. If we do not take up our role, then we fail."

I cannot agree more.

But let's back up a little. The war in Afganistan, Iraq and the Middle East is 100% political. It has nothing to do with spreading Christianity or the right of Choice (and how can you spread freedom the the right to choose if you cannot give the people real choice - Christianity, REAL GOVERNMENT etc...).

In a way these wars maybe gave a little more choice to the countries, but it also imported Islam and Muslims into your own. So you may have given a bit freedom, but you also chocked yourselves with Islam.

There was a story in the paper this week about a poll in Islamic lands. Majorities in every Islamic country polled, aside from Jordon and Palestine, rejected violence in the name of Islam, and rejected Osama bin Ladin.
It is important that our view of everyday Muslims is not skewed by the sensational stories and the acts of extremists. It is also important to realize that American foreign policy has contributed to the growth of Islamic extremism.
-Daniel

Comforting to know that a majority Muslims in certain countries reject violence and I am sure a majority of the citizens of Iraq reject violence. Hoever, has anyone heard of any prominent Muslim clerics issuing any "fatwas" denouncing or condemning those of their faith who use violence?

Yes, actually the highest Islamic authority in Great Britain just did so; it was in the news today.
-Daniel

Here are some stories on the reaction of British Muslims to the bombings:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/07/17/international/i145729D50.DTL

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2005/s1411453.htm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1529753,00.html

--tim