www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News New women priests ordained yesterday

To get serious again, just for a second: yes, a man can be motherly (and a man can certainly be nurturing). And yes, a woman can be priestly. But a man cannot be a mother, and a woman cannot be a priest.

Incognitus

IMO, a Public Excommunication in cases
like this would be an important sign for the
secular world. As Catholics, we of course know
that such "ordinations" are illicit and invalid,
but the secular world doesn't. When they see
something like this happen, followed by Silence
from Rome, the obvious conclusion the world
makes is: "it must be OK, because Rome
hasn't condemned it...."


antonius

I thought Rome had spoken very clearly that it considers the ordination of women as priests to be impossible, that it is a matter of the nature of the mystery of the priesthood.

For example, "Ordinatio Sacerdotalis" May 22, 1994 on the reservation of the sacrament to men alone.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/j..._22051994_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html

Dear Incognitus,

How about if you, just for a second, stop being SO serious?

Alex

Dear Antonius,

You make an excellent point - in fact, the media covering this event interviewed some of the "priests" ordained and referred to them as "women priests" etc.

They DID show a clip of Pope Benedict and said that he did excommunicate the "woman bishop" who ordained the women some time ago as Cardinal.

Alex

Dear Friends,

Yes, a woman cannot be a priest.

But there are those, including Catholics, who see a kind of "resentment against women" or even a male patriarchal attitude that is set off by this matter.

Again, I affirm what the Church affirms with respect to the priesthood.

But what about some of our male chauvinistic attitudes?

When I related how I help out at home with the chores here, one brother referred to me as "MS Roman."

A joke, yes.

But is there some truth behind this kind of joke?

Does the Church come across to women and to the world as being chauvinistically male, at least in some of its hierarchical members?

What about the role of women in the Church?

Alex

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Alex: I can assure you that many members of the Church are, in fact, quite chauvinistic, but frankly so are a number of men in general. I'm not sure there is more or less prevalance of it in the Church.

It's probably more news-worthy, however, when we see it in the Church.

Of course the whole story is ridiculous. Priestly ordination of women is impossible.

Have a wonderful day,

Fr. Deacon Chris

As my kids would say who quote Monty Python all the time, these are not exact words, hopefully close...

They took a woman and said she was a witch, they placed a tall pointed hat on her and a very obvioulsy fake nose...

The people said, "shes a witch!"

King Author asks, "how do you know shes a witch?"

The people say, "cause she looks like a one."

She said, "well they dressed me up this way."

King Author asks, "did you dress her like this?"

The people say, "yes, a bit, a bit."

Author says, "well how do you know shes a witch?"

The man says, "she turned me into a newt!"

"A newt?" says Author

The man says, "well I got better."

The moral of my thought is they can dress like priest, but they aren't priests. And they can pretend to turn the bread and wine into the body and blood, but it ain't the real thing!

Here is a link to the article Dave posted about the woman ordaining herself in Russia, check out what she is wearing...
http://www.portal-credo.ru/site/?act=news&id=35182&type=forum#lst

Speaking about excommunication and how that would really show the the world Rome's stance on the matter, didn't Rome publically excommunicate those women "priests" (of which now one is a bishop who performed this most recent "ordination") who were ordained on the Dnieper or Danube or whatever river in Europe a year or two ago?

Logos Teen

Dear Teen:

Yes, Rome has spoken on this matter and has declared the previous ordinations invalid: void ab initio.

The local ordinary (from either side of the Lawrence River) or Rome may come out publicly against these subsequent ordinations only if the Catholic laity somehow has forgotten the meaning and gravity of the previous condemnation and there is widespread misunderstanding.

So far, most of the amusement comes from us of this Forum that a reiteration of Rome's declaration from any of our pontificators here (Alex and Incognitus, you're on!) should suffice for the moment.

Amado

Dear Alex,
Gladly - but I'm waiting for you to pass me that vodka you promised!

Водка, водка, мать родная,
Водка русская река . . . !

Incognitus

Here's one reaction from the Chancellor of the the Archdiocese of Quebec:
"[o]rdination of women priests not valid," says canon law expert Msgr. Jean Pelletier.

Read story at:

http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=59009

Amado

I'd like to see a good ol' fashioned excommunication.

I often think that the bad sort of feminism sprouts from an unhealthy attitude on the part of some women themselves towards who and what they are.

I would far rather be a woman than a man.

In part, this is because of growing up with religious parents. Jesus had a very cool Mom - and the holy women he befriended were in many ways braver than his closest male companions, particularly with regard to their witness of the Crucifixion and the Resurrection. These women served the Lord directly and without a lot of hoopla and fear.

God made two sexes and the truth is that they are different. If only men are called to be priests, then that is fine with me. Really, when we start viewing vocations like careers then we start losing sight of the idea of service, which is more what "career" in the church is about. You don't serve people by forcing yourselves on them - right now, that is what these women who do wacky things to get ordained seem to be doing: forcing themselves on a church that doesn't want their service in that manner. That's ego. That's not service. And it belittles the fine and necessary service rendered by those who are not priests in the church - brothers and sisters also perform excellent service to the people of God. If your service is needed as a sister by the people of the church and you are called to that life, then why try to force yourself into the unfitting role of a priest?

As an aside, I compete in several tough sports that require strength and endurance and maybe that "warps" my world view just a little. The differences between men and women are pretty apparent in sport. I know there is a reason why I put the shot against women in competition and not against men - no matter how strong I am (and I am pretty strong), a similarly talented and similarly trained male of my age would be a lot bigger and stronger than me and would beat me squarely - and where would the fun be in that? Same with marathoning - we all run in our own class - men with men, women with women, and by age - among similar athletes, men do have the edge. Even the elite women always lag a little behind elite men in times - we're not sure why, but it probably has to do with the ability to efficiently use oxygen. For whatever reason, God made us different in that way, too. Sport recognizes the differences in people - and that the differences aren't a bad thing. In the end, it's all about doing the best you can with what you've got and working with who you are for the best results you can get. To me it is a loser attitude to sit there and say, "woe is me, I'm a woman, change the rules so I can win against the men." That's asking for pity unneccessarily.

Women and men are equally important, but they are not the same. Women can like sports, the color pink and teddy bears withouth raising an eyebrow. Aaaahhh... we are in a happier place then our husbands in many ways! ;-) We can go out and tear through the woods on our mountain bikes and get all cut up and then come home and sit down to tea in a floral pot and a stuffed animal. And we can cry at movies (I don't do that, but I could if I wanted to). You poor men, we'd talk about you if you did!

Okay, I've never been discriminated against career-wise or in any other way I've noticed in my lifetime, and maybe if I had been, I might see the world differently. But I sure as heck do not see the Catholic or Orthodox churches as in any way against women just because their priests are only men. I don't see the priesthood as a career. I see it as a life of sacrifice and service - not something you go and do according to your own rules.