www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall invented greetings

Sorry to rain on the parade, but I've noticed several participants in the Forum offering the greeting and response of "Christ is Baptized! In the Jordan!". This greeting and response is not traditional, and has no basis in the liturgy, nor in the patristic sources. Incognitus

I have heard it in parishes both Greek Catholic and Orthodox. Is there any harm in it??

Whose tradition are you speaking for, incognitus?

From Webster's :
I assure that this greeting was transmitted to me from my father, and grandparents, and many others. I cannot tell you how long this greeting has been traditional, only that it is, indeed, traditional.

And from another source:
https://www.byzcath.org/bboard/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000956#000002

And:
http://www.unicorne.org/orthodoxy/jan2003/greetings.htm

I have a sneaky suspicion that 'incognitius' is correct here for the most part (the exception being some Carpathians), but I think the best measure of the value of a practice is: does it bring people closer to the Lord? If it does, then fine. If it doesn't, then dump it. In this case, it would seem that it might serve to help some live out the Liturgy in daily life by reminding them and others of the feast. (I would personally like the response: FOR OUR SALVATION better, but I'm just a simple monk...what would I know?!) Certainly IF it is a custom of ANY of our Orthodox peoples, it can be used if it brings you closer to HIM!

In His Holy Name,
+Father Archimandrite Gregory

I've been on a learning curve in relation to the Byzantine Church and her traditions since my undergraduate years.

I wonder if this seemingly "new" greeting and response--if, indeed, it is new--is the work of the Holy Spirit. Tradition grows (capital "T") with the addition of new traditions (small "t") when the Holy Spirit is at work. Is it not up to us to test these manifestations to see what Spirit/spirit animates them? If as Fr. Gregory mentions, such a thing keeps the Feast in the minds of the believers throughout the period after the Feast for awhile and it enlivens their faith, drawing them ever closer to Christ, how can we try to stop the work of the Holy Spirit? After all, no other spirit works to draw people to Christ--other spirits usually work to draw us away.

The beauty of the Byzantine Church has been stifled for too many centuries IMO--under Turkish rule and sometimes under the rulers in whose lands she lived. But she now has a chance to live and move and grow--something like having a cake of yeast being able to leaven again after being in the refrigerator for some time. I will be the first to grant that not everything will be useful to growth in Christ, but the Holy Spirit can be a bit "messy" in the way He works sometimes and He doesn't always provide growth in the ways we humans think He should. But that, I believe, is the thrill of being a believer--God's ways are not our own and sometimes He leaves us in awe.

May God grant that the Holy Spirit may continue to work in our faith communities to stir us all up to greater intimacy with Christ, Our Savior.

In Christ,

BOB

I know I shouldn't ask this, but...

I've heard several suggested responses to the greeting "Christ is circumcised" but I'm not sure I believe any of them.

What say you?

Dan Lauffer

Dear Bob,

If one thinks about it, you are certainly correct in saying that a living church will have certain new traditions emerge as it goes...and your thoughts on spiritual discernment regarding those traditions are right on target.

It reminds me of something a former Archbishop of the GOA once said (and which his former Archdeacon, my current priest, has adapted from him)---

When asked what he thought of the non-traditional practice of nameing and baptizing children with 'non-traditional Orthodox Christian saint's names' he responded, and how do you know that the newly baptized 'Ashley' or 'Plato', etc. won't one day be 'St. Ashley' or 'St. Plato'?

So my priest has no problem doing this, although a saint's name as a middle name is still highly encouraged! (After all, until those Ashleys and Platos are canonized, it would still be nice for them to have a feast day! )

In Christ,
Alice

Christ is Born!

Dear all,

I'm sharing this on behalf of a friend who gave the greeting "Christ is Baptised" and got the reply "Truly Dunked!"

Just my two obols!

in Domino,

Edward

Well that one's canonical, casting aspersions on aspersions. Maybe it should be "Truly triply dunked".

I've heard too many priests from the "old country" both Catholic and Orthodox give this greeting to believe this. At least amongst the Carpathians, whether Rusyn or Galician, it is traditional.

Christ is baptized! In the Jordan!

I learned this greeting from the clergy of Sts. Volodymyr and Olha Ukrainian Catholic Church in Chicago.

"Traditional greetings?"

The dearly beloved greeting, "Slava Isusu Christu!" is unknown to people whose ancestors did not live in the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Does that make it somehow un-Orthodox?

Don't get me wrong; Ukrainian Orthodox use this greeting as well. But you won't find it used by Russians or Serbs or Greeks or Bulgarians or Arab Christians. Its origins are very likely from the Latin greeting "Laudetur Jesus Christus." So what? It marks us as a people, and I say "thank God" for it.

If one does not wish to greet people with a special greeting for Theophany or for Ascension, then don't. No one has legislated it. But to imply that the use of such a greeting is somehow incorrect---I find this strange, and a little sad.

(Prof.) J. Michael Thompson
Byzantine Catholic Seminary
Pittsburgh, PA

I'm all for things Orthodox and authentic tradition and all that.

And while I suspect that strictly speaking, in a liturgiological sense, Incognitus is correct.

I not only dont' see any harm in, I like these Greeting and would encourage their use!

It is not a latinization, since that Latins don't do it - so we're OK on that score.

It's good for the spiritual life.

It helps make the feast more present in our day to day lives.

It's helps us to glorify God.

And anyways, the Russians and Greeks, as far as I know, don't say "Christ is Born" or even "Glory to Jesus Christ" either, and I like these practices too!

Christ is Baptised!

Herb

ps:

as long as I'm being honest, I'll admit that now that the Latins have stopped vesting in black, I like our clergy to wear black vestments too! They look SO COOL!

I guess we're all wet behind the ears then.......

Any other greetings we should be wary of? :rolleyes:

STeve

Black vestments were first used in the Russian Church for the funeral of Peter the II, 1821. After that black was mandated for every funeral (outside of Paschaltide) and eventually was used for the Great Fast as well. So this is one Latin practice that was actually borrowed by the Russian Church first, and later the Greek Catholics also adopted it.

While it is not "traditional" in the big picture sense (some Orthodox have even preached against using black as it is a later borrowing) it certainly has come to be the practice in many places and indeed is a stark and beautiful liturgical color.

Dear Dan,

I think that the Feast of Our Lord's Circumcision underlines His Naming, the Name of the Lord Jesus, God-is-with-us and I've seen calendars that so describe this feast.

As an aside, since the Old Calendarist Churches of Russia, Belarus and Ukraine no longer celebrate New Year's on January 14th (but on Jan. 1st), this provides an opportuntiy to truly celebrate the joyous feast of the Most Holy Name of our Lord Jesus at that time!

Alex