www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall invented greetings

I had a wonderful conversation with a lovely Carpatho-Rusyn Orthodox man in my parish who is from Ohio and who told me that it was always customary that on entering the home one would say to the family member "Slava Isusu Christu!" with the appropriate response and the different responses according to the Liturgical season and to bow and how if he missed doing this, his father would question him about it! This extended to members of the parish as well. May this EVER continue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Theophany greeting of "Christos Krestivyjsja!
Vo Jordani Rika" is used by many older Carpatho-Rusyn and Galician Ukrainian Greek Catholics and Orthodox Christians. Because the Grigassy prayer book doesn't include doesn't surprise me, as he was trained in the pro-Hungarian envirnoment of the Ungvar/Munkach Eparchy and probably didn't care for "Galician" traditions and liturgical usages. If you go to some of the Ruthenian Metropolia (as well as ACROGC and OCA parishes) churches in America where there are a large percentage of "Galiciany", this greeting has always been used. I think it is a proper greeting for Theophany even if it was only popular in the Galician churches.

Christos Razhdajet'sja! Slavite Jeho!
Christos Krestivyjsja! Vo Jordani Rika!

Ung-Certez

This is interesting.

I would like to add something on languages for the North American continent.

English -- Good by! (God be with ye -- implying 'go with God.'

Spanish -- Adios! (a Dios -- with God, implying
'go with God.')

French -- Adieu (a Dieu -- with God, implying
'go with God.')

Czech -- S Bohem (go with God, implying 'go
with God) My Czech
grandmother used to say this

Those are ones I know.

Dear Incognitus,

I would have to return to that New Calendar, modern parish to find out, which, believe me, won't be any time soon!

(You really are out a mission on this thing, aren't you?)

My brother, Amado, is right.

I'm looking at myself from the perspective of some Orthodox Christians.

Thank you, Amado - Magandang Gabi!

Alex

Dear Brian,

The Old Rite Orthodox tradition is to change the greeting EVERY day.

One would say "With the Feast of (the saint of the day) or "with the Feast of (Sunday's feast), I wish you good health!"

So what is Incognitus on about?

(I don't know who he is so I have to be careful what I say to him in case he turns out to be my bishop. I still need my bishop to approve a couple of things for me . . . ).

Alex

Dear Alex, Fear not. I am not your bishop, nor anybody else's, nor would I covet such a position! It is perfectly proper to congratulate people on the occuring feast, and on other occasions as well.
Hmmm. You noticed this prayer book in a New-Calendar, modern church, presumably somewhere around Toronto? That only strengthens my argument - one would expect to find recent innovations in such establishments!
Not only do Grigassy's prayer-books not contain this invented Theophany greeting; it's not found in Galician prayer-books either.
Incognitus

Cher Orthodoxe-Catholique,

C'est evident quand tu parle "de la place ou je travaille" tu ne veux pas dire l'Assemble Nationale a Quebec ou mes 'amis' les separatistes ne veux rien savoir de la reine Britanique. Ca fait au moins 30 ans depuis quant elle a fait une tourne a la 'belle province'.
Vive la reine !

VIVE La REPUBLIQUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As an Irish nationalist I can only say: "Idolator!!!"

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Concerning the greetings, I have an old prayer book which give us some guidance in this area.
The book was compiled and edited by Rev. Julius Grigassy. The imprimatur is Bishop Basil Takach, and it was published in 1945.

Appendix VII is titled �Customary Christian Salutations Among the Greek (Hungarian) Rite Catholics� The entries are:

�Christ is risen! Indeed He is risen!� (During the Eastertide)
�Christ is born! Praise ye Him!� (During the Christmastide)
�Praised by Jesus Christ! Forever. Amen.� (Throughout the rest of the year)
�Christ is our midst! He is and shall be!� (Salutation at the Murovanije - Anointing�
�Peace be to this house! And to its inhabitants� (On the occasion of visiting a Christian home)

The book is interesting because for each page of English, there is a corresponding page in Hungarian. Other than some very minor translation differences, it is quite true to today�s usage. There are pictures of various Divine Liturgy actions. The pictures are hand-drawn, reasonably lifelike, and, interestingly enough, picture a priest (vested properly for liturgy) and a server, vested as a subdeacon.

Hope this helps,
Deacon El

Dear Daniel n,

I've never said the Irish should be under the Queen!

But there is a monarchist movement within Ireland to restore the "Ard Righ" of Eire.

As for idolatry, "God save the Queen" or "God save the King" is a biblical expression right out of the Old Testament.

"Sadok the priest and Nathan the prophet anointed Solomon king . . . and they all sang out, God save the king! Long live the king!"

To honour someone anointed sovereign within a Christian sacramental ceremony in this way is simply a prayer - as are Psalms 19 and 20 that are sung at Byzantine Matins every day.

We feel that what you Americans do with your flag is a form of idolatry - we do not salute flags.

When a member of the Royal Family came on Royal Progress through Ontario some years back, there was a regiment with flags that represented that member.

But when the person the flags represented was in the room, the flags, by Royal protocol, lose their significance, and the soldiers simply draped them on the floor for the entire period of time when the person was with them.

For Canada, the monarchy has had the wonderful effect of creating a society that sees itself as an eqalitarian family with a "mother" to inspire us.

Republicanism as the world knows it was largely born in the fires and atheistic oppression of the French Revolution.

And most republics in the world today are anything but democratic.

Alex

Dear Daniel n,

I've never said the Irish should be under the Queen!

But there is a monarchist movement within Ireland to restore the "Ard Righ" of Eire.

As for "idolatry," "God save the Queen" or "God save the King" is a biblical expression right out of the Old Testament.

"Sadok the priest and Nathan the prophet anointed Solomon king . . . and they all sang out, God save the king! Long live the king!"

To honour someone anointed sovereign within a Christian sacramental ceremony in this way is simply a prayer - as are Psalms 19 and 20 that are sung at Byzantine Matins every day.

We feel that what you Americans do with your flag is a form of idolatry - we do not salute flags.

When a member of the Royal Family came on Royal Progress through Ontario some years back, there was a regiment with flags that represented that member.

But when the person the flags represented was in the room, the flags, by Royal protocol, lose their significance, and the soldiers simply draped them on the floor for the entire period of time when the person was with them.

For Canada, the monarchy has had the wonderful effect of creating a society that sees itself as an eqalitarian family with a "mother" to inspire us.

Republicanism as the world knows it was largely born in the fires and atheistic oppression of the French Revolution.

And most republics in the world today are anything but democratic.

Alex

Twelve years ago Patriarch Mystyslav (Ukrainian Autocepholous Orthodox Church USA and Ukraine-Rus) was on the same Air Ukraine flight as I was from JFK (New York) to Kyiv. I wanted to briefly speak to this 'historical' holy man during the flight. Unfortunately I was unable to do so because the crew had given him and his entourage 'special' seating up front where they could not be disturbed. This was totally understandable given the advanced age of the Patriarch and the long flight time from New York to Kyiv.

When we arrived in Kyiv, they first 'deplaned' the Patriarch and the 3 priests travelling with him. He sat in his wheelchair at the base of the plane with the UAOC priests waiting for their government escort through customs. We slowly began deplaning. The Patriarch appeared to be in prayer or perhaps just deep thought (many immigrants who travel back 'home' after decades of living abroad will go through a 'flashback' thought process in which they relive their lives much like when you think you are about to die).

I wanted to give the Ukrainian Patriarch a warm welcome to his native land which he left half century earlier. As we shuffled by the two of us said as loud as we could "SLAVA ISUSU HRYSTU !" (Glory to Jesus Christ !). In almost perfect unison all three Ukrainian Autocepholous Orthodox Church priests turned to us and replied "Slava na Viky" (Eternal Glory !). Everyone (government officials included) looked at us and smilled with expressions of approval. I don't think the Patriarch heard us perhaps because of old age hearing problems.

At the time I did not realize that this expression was of Galician / Subcarpathian Austro-Hungarian Empire origin. We had been taught in Ukrainian Saturday School to say this to ALL priests when greeting them (UGCC AND Orthodox). It was a sign of respect to God and the clergy. We had been told that the expression had been banned by the Communists who felt the word 'Slava' (Glory) could only be used in reference to their party, people, or deeds. Perhaps it was also banned because of it's 'Western' and not 'Eastern' Empire origins.

Does anyone know if the expression is regularly used by our Ukrainian Autocepholous Orthodox brothers and sisters, or was the Patriarch's entourage simply being courteous to us Eastern Catholics when they responded ?

Dear Hritzko,

Happy New Year!

As I understand it, we would not say "Glory to Jesus Christ" to a cleric or hierarch, but go through the ritual of bowing, reverencing with a kiss and then asking for the blessing with crossed-over palms.

I've seen many Orthodox do this habitually - "Glory to Jesus Christ" is only exchanged among laity.

And even when we speak to a priest or hierarch over the phone, we must begin and end our conversations with "Bless me, Holy Father or Vladyko" and the like."

Most of our Galician Greek-Catholics don't do this but say "Glory to Jesus Christ" to clerics and hierarchs - which is certainly not the proper form.

Also, the full response to "Christ is Risen" is given by St John Damascus when he explains the significance of the red Paschal Egg. The full response is:

"Truly the Master (Vladyka) of Heaven and earth and of all things visible and and invisible has risen from the dead!" The short form is, of course, "Truly He is risen!"

In addition, many people from the Carpathians often respond to "Glory to Jesus Christ!" with "Glory forever to the Holy God!" (Slava na viky Bohu Svyatomu!)

Alex

One of our correspondents mentions the greeting �Peace be to this house! And to its inhabitants� found in Fr Grigassy's prayer-book. This is a direct translation from the Latin: Pax huic domui et habitantibus in ea. Incognitus