www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Does the Byzantine Forum contribute to global terrorism?

Well, that got your attention, didn't it? Let me explain my question.
The current issue of Time magazine has a cover story, "the Struggle Within Islam", a very informative and interesting piece about the growth of radical violent Islam and the moderates struggling to limit that growth. Several moderate Muslims are quoted to the effect that the actions of the United States since 9/11 have contributed to the growth of violent interpretations of Islam and have made the task of peace-loving Muslims more difficult.
Such actions include:
1] the bombings and invasions of two Muslim countries and the accompanying deaths of Muslim civilians.
2] the arrest and subsequent jailing of Muslims without formal charges, legal representation, or bail, often on very flimsy grounds.
3] continued American unconditional support for Israel and its oppresive tactics against the Palestinian people.
4]photographs and other evidence of the torture and abuse of Muslim prisoners.

What does this have to do with the Forum? Well, in recent months there have been numerous posts on various threads that:
1] claim -contrary to Catholic teaching- that Muslims worship, not the One God, Creator of all, but a] a pagan moon god or b] Satan.
2] describe Muslims as "terrorists", making no distinction between radical Jihadists and moderate Muslims.
3] called Muslims "a cancer" that must be destroyed [I know the poster will say he was referring only to terrorists, but it could certainly be read the way I have stated it.]
4] called the "nuking of terrorists" a "good idea".
If I may digress, this last post is most appaling on a Christian website. What does he think, that the terrorists live in the isolated kingdom of Badistan and we can take care of the problem with one bomb? Terrorists are civilians who live with their wives and babies and relatives and neighbors in villages, refugee camps and cities in the Islamic world and indeed, in the West. Last time I checked, the willingness to incinerate vast numbers of innocents with a weapon of mass destruction to accomplish a percieved good end was the mark of a terrorist, not that of a Christian.
But back to my topic:
Let's say you are a young Muslim surfing the net who has developed an interest in Middle Eastern expressions of Christianity. You stumble onto the Byzantine Forum, looking for information about the Melkites, Syrian Orthodox, and Chaldeans. You see threads about Muslims, and of course you check them out. What is your reaction to the sorts of posts I have listed? Are you not appalled by the hateful venom spewed by Christians, some of who appear to want to annihilate you and yours? Are you not then more open to the Jihadist message? Has the Byzantine Forum just helped create a terrorist?
Think about it.
-peace and good, Daniel

Iconophile,

I fully agree with what you said. It is quite sad for me to see the support of a Christian holy war against Islam, as I have seen in here, and seeing that the comments posted here could be used to help the spiral of hate continue. What you say is valid -- a Muslim looking in here will be able to say, "See, the hate of Christianity is apparent. They are terorists, supporting nuclear war against innocents."

I have tried to limit my comments in here, because what I would say, people know already. The same comments I protested against have continued. But I must stand in and support your wise post.

Pax
Henry

I have to say I agree with what you say 100%! Seems that Rome would too, if you read the documents from Vatican II, the Catechism and listen to what the Pope has had to say. But then I have noticed that the so called "liberals" aren't the only "cafeteria" Catholics, the conservatives and traditionals are just as bad and maybe worse about that. Moe

I still maintain that there is a big difference between Muslims who are peaceful, and terrorists. The terrorists are criminals and need to be caught/detained/killed, whatever it takes to stop them. That could be done without harming peaceful people, but it's long past time the peaceful Muslims helped in putting an end to the terrorists. Of course, we could just follow 1960s logic and ignore everything bad - "all you need is love" ROFL

When you realize that the single entity that has used nuclear weapons against its enemies, is that nation which has been called in this very forum "the last bastion of Christianity".

Is Christianity a religion of Peace? I would say so. But with so many wars right now, who has the time to be a Christian?

Is Islam a religion of War? I do not know if it is so more or less than Christianity, what I do know is that I cannot judge a religion by its followers or alleged followers. With people like Hitler or Reagan or Bush calling themselves Christian, I would need to rank Christianity among the lowest scumbags this world has suffered.

In the same way, the fact that Osama Bin-Laden and Co. claim to follow Islam does not negate the millions upon millions of followers of Islam that are so with a sincere heart and mind as their way to relate to God and to be a better person and to build a better world.

I may not agree with their conclussions, but I do respect their principles and uphold their right to pursue them in peace.

That Islam, just as Christianity, is an engine for progress and well-being is evident for those who realize that "history" goes back for more than a couple of weeks. Islamic culture has given us brilliant contributions to Mathematics, Chemistry, Astronomy, Medicine, Architecture, and many other fields of human knowledge and culture.

I do not know if this forum has promoted terrorism or not. I see with sadness, that it certainly has failed to promote healing and reconciliation.

That is bad enough.

Shalom,
Memo.

I don't see much promotion of anything in the posts so far except simple minded blather. If you have something constructive to say, then say it.

Hitler, Bush, and Reagan in the same breath? Give it a rest. You seem to have lost your mind.

Western Europe and North American have been officially pagan for centuries. We have an uphill battle in trying to convert the peoples in these nations. But there is one great big difference between Western Europe and No. America and a majority of Muslim nations. No one receives violent persection for not being this or that religion. I support there is something romantic about pretending that all Muslims are peace loving and benign and would never harm anyone except for our evil actions against them. If you think that is so I invite you to move to Iran or better to Sudan or Uzbekistan and challenge the government there or try to build a Church there.

If your opinion is correct come back and tell us about it.

All I ask is a little sanity in your approach. I've written several times about wise and compassionate Muslims I have known personally but don't give us your whining foolishness about the benignity of the butchers in so many of these Muslim dominated countries.

Tell us about the last time a group of Christians hi jacked any mode of transportation and slaughtered everyone on it. Or better yet, why not go find Osama bin Laden and tell him that Jesus Christ is Lord.

O, and Daniel, you are indeed a poop.

Dan L

No matter what the US gov't does, or what we (as Americans and our First Amendment rights) say here will not contribute to world terrorism. If a terrorist chooses to run a car or an airplane into a building they do it out of free will. No one or a phrase that they see on the internet will deter them.

If we change our attitude to please the terrorists the terrorists have won.

One more thing, and I should have written it before. Some of you don't know what you are writing about. In God's mercy He lets you continue to blather on and pretend that you are real intellects. But just shut up, please. Do us a favor and go soak your heads. You make me sick with your comparisons of Reagan, Bush, and Hitler. You don't know what you are talking about. Perhaps it would have done you all good to live a few years in Auschwitch or in a Siberian Gulag. Then you might be able to come back and lecture us. You offend me.

Dan L

Iconophile,
You do a great service by recognizing the lack of charity and true Christian witness in this forum. There are a number of "intellectuals" who are really just lonely and arrogant people, who in turn, hate other people and use the forum to disguise their hatred as some sort of intellectual superiority. They are all for free speech unless you challenge their haughtiness--then look out--they will gang up on you and start slandering you from the comfort of their anonymity. Some of these folks spend so much time in this forum and other forums, that it makes you wonder what kind of lives they lead. Couldn't this time be used feeding the poor or serving the least of our brothers? We all know that "Christian" Serbian Orthodox slaughtered Muslim Kosovars in the past ten years. I know. I worked with these Kosovar refugees--you'd be amazed at the evil "Christians" do, even in modern times. Iconaphile, don't let these pseudo-intellectual name callers get to you. We all know there is good and evil in every religion, because there's good and evil in every person. Glory be to Jesus Christ!

I don't know, Mike.
I posted the original quote about nuking the terrorists.
Vladimir Putin made the statement after the school massacre.

I saw on CNN that he attended the funeral of some children who were killed, and he blessed himself Right to Left. Now if a curious Muslim saw that and THEN came to our forum, he would definitely believe the Orthodox and Eastern Catholics were out to nuke Muslims! Uh oh. If we can't log on tomorrow I'll know why.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
part b:

What is this link some make between Bush and Hitler anyway? For years we were attacked overseas by terrorists, and the WTC was hit the first time during the Clinton Admin. Nothing was done to stop the 'terrorists'or increase our safety.
George Bush is dealt a blow on 9/11 and he deals with it by fighting back. He increases security in the US, more investigative work is going on to locate and destroy cells around the world. Arrests are made and a murderous radical dictatorship is overthrown, replaced with the beginnings of a democracy. Is there fighting? Sure! Remember our own democratic society was violently working out the kinks well into the 1970's and still is to a point- 200 years after the signing of the Declaration. There weren't as many car bombings, but there were deadly gun battles, burning of the White House, civil war with young armies on both sides, women thrown in jail and tortured for wanting the right to vote, firehoses, lynchings etc etc etc. It hasn't always been so cushy in America. Freedom was fought for and won right here at home.

If the battle cry is 'Its about the Oil' maybe the tree huggers can live without oil, but the rest of the country would literally starve to death without it. If the battle cry is jobs and health care - look around. No system is perfect. 9/11 slammed us. It hurt our economy. I am surprised there is any growth at all. I don't see the Hitler connection at all, and only in America can we publicly humiliate a president like we have and get away with it.

OK Dan, I'll shut up

Marya

Marya,

You are correct. These people hide behind Christian charity and humiliates people all the time. I call someone a poop because he acts petulant and accuses people of bad motives. He gets all defensive to the point of starting another entire thread about it. What a cry baby!

I don't claim to know how to respond to the evil that occured three years today. What about the millions in Sudan, the hundreds of thousands in Iraq, the continuous murderous bombings in Israel, etc. etc. What's to be done about this? Has this country been given power by God simply to sit by and watch evil take place all the time? I don't know.

Perhaps we ought to sit by and watch all of this happen. A Democratic President, FDR didn't think we should sit around and watch evil happen. Was he wrong? A very respected pastor friend of mine told me his agony in deciding to be a Conscientious Objector during WWII. I respect a courageous decision like that. I don't agree with it, but I respect it. He never ever thought of calling FDR a Hitler.

Should Serbia have reacted to the Kosovo (Albanian) terrorists who had been attacking them for years? I do think they went beyond what they needed to do in order to survive but didn't they have a right to defend themselves? Don't we have the right today to call evil evil? I believe we do? I really don't care what people call me. When Muslims act in a righteous way I will say they are righteous. When Christians act in a righteous way I will say they are righteous. When either act in an evil way I will call them evil.

I wish we could vote for Alan Keyes. But he isn't running. The second best choice is Bush because at least we know what he stands for and he is consistent.

Dan L

As much as I enjoy this forum, I don't think it has anywhere near that kind of power or influence. I would be greatly surprised if ANY Muslims read it, much less change their behavior because of it. In fact, I seriously doubt that most Latin Rite Catholics even know or care that there are Eastern Churches, Catholic or Orthodox. If pride goes before a fall - and excess ego could be called pride - someone is in great danger of landing squarely on his Democrat mascot.

Daniel, the Catholic teaching is a Triune God. We've been through this before. And the Church has been through Councils and serious Trinitarian disputes to proclaim that Triune God. If you dispute the Church teaches a Triune God, I would suggest you study the Catholic faith and especially the Church Fathers bit more. This has everything to do with reason and the Holy Spirit rather than hate.

The God of Islam is most definitely NOT a Triune God, no matter what sort of projections or twisting of doctrine is attempted to get it to fit, and by the admissions and statement of faith of Islam as contained in the Koran. They know it, and we who profess to be orthodox know it. We have a basic disagreement. This has nothing to do with hate and wishing brutal death on our brothers [which they remain in spite of our basic disagreements].

I agree with ByzanTN. While we would like to think all of our armchair pontificating has great effect, I think he has a realistic picture.

Agua,

I was wondering if Agua Secreta is your real name. Also, I'm not familiar with the city and state "South Eastern" USA. Do we know that there is good and evil in every person?

More to the point and I'll ignore much of your post because you really don't know me, can you suggest some areas to which we might give to help the poor. Particularly since this thread is on "Global Terrorism" do you know some constructive ways to help people who are victims of terrorists? I believe you are serious about wanting us to help. Can you show us some more ways?

Your friendly pseudo-intellectual and lonely arrogant man,

Dan L

Excerpted from original post:

So, from your post it would seem that terrorists are just ordinary people who live 9 to 5 day jobs, being productive citizens and are essentially harmless civilians. That definition would describe most Americans.....Perhaps those same "civilian" terrorists are harmless to their immediate family around them, though quite harmful to those whom they target including the husbands, wives and babies of their enemies.

steve