www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Farenheit 9/11

It is libel to say Moore thought Bush knew in advance.

Moore explores Bush's talent for digging dry oil wells as CEO of Arbusto and Saudi money through an intermediary bailing him out in the years before he found religion.

15 of 19 hijackers were Saudi, The Bin Laden family were flown out without questioning while the rest of the country was grounded. The House of Saud will fall like the Shah and Saudis will rightly blame us for propping up that miserable regime that forbids Christianity. Bush smoking cigars 48 hours after Sept 11 with Saudi Prince Bandar was unseemly at best. Saudi money funds the Wahhabi madrassahs that gave us Sept 11. Why were the Sept 11 Commission Papers on Saudi Arabia censored?

Okay. I was wrong, I apologize for arguing that wrong position time and again, and I do indeed stand condemned by my own posts. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ...When I'm less stressed by summer-school finals, I'll laugh at the irony of it (and at myself).

Every western government was aware of the fact that the Bin Laden folk wanted to commit a spectacular act of terrorism to stun the world and bring western civilization to it's knees. This coupled with the fact that the World Trade Center had been targeted before, certainly did put the buildings on the 'high risk' list. This was the extent of President Bush's knowledge of the event (ie: they would sure like to get the WTC). President Clinton had the same information before him as did all western democracies.

Anyone travelling by air the year before the event will tell you of the obvious added security at all European airports.

The Bin Laden brothers have been estranged for over 15 years. If there had been any connection between his USA residing family and the terrorists, it would have been made public.

The Bin Laden family was interogated by both the CIA and FBI and were flown out because the State Department could not guarantee their safety in the United States. Clearly, there were USA citizens who wanted to seek revenge. Each member would have required a group of FBI special agents to guarantee their safety. Since they were 'royals', the state department had a special obligation to ensure their safety. They were unable to do this, so they strongly suggested that they leave.

No the house of Saud will not fall. The house of Saud will be reformed, as will the nature of politics, society, and religion within Saudi Arabia. We have come a long way in the past three years, and there is no reason to believe that success can't be achieved.

Hritzko

Moore demontrates contact with his American siblings continued, ie a wedding.

I have not seen the movie.

(1) When did the wedding take place ?

(2) Who invited whom to the wedding ?

(3) Did everyone know who would be invited, or

(4) did some of the unknowing relative (ie: did not know about his terror intentions) invite knowing relatives (ie: relatives who had a strong feeling or knew he was a crackpot) ?

(5) What was known about Osama's terror activities at the time of the wedding and by whom and to what extent ?

If you you can answer these questions and give added information, perhaps it would be easier to explain.

OR

Perhaps it would be more resonable to assume if any of them had connections to the terrorists (or plots), the CIA and FBI would have prefered that they remain in the country so that they could use them to further trace the organization and it's activities.

I have met at least a dozen Saudi Royals and they are enamoured with the United States (and all western democracies) and highly dependent on them for their very survival. To believe that the Royals had prior knowledge or participated in the terror activities is pure 'hooolalala' propaganda.

Hritzko

The answers are in the book "House of Saud, House of Bush."

I am sure the Saudi rolex wearing elite love us.
We are the fools that guarantee their security.
A regime that forbids Christianity more than North Korea.
A regime that beheads women for adultery and then goes home and watches the Playboy Channel via satellite.
Talk to real people inside the Saudi Arabian gulag.
They hate the House of Saud, because they are phony hypocrites, much like American pedophile hiding bishops.
In comparison, Iran is an imperfect democracy based on the the French Constitution thanks to Khomeini's exile in France. The Iranian ayatollahs dont go home to watch Baywatch.
It will fall, Inshallah
The CIA missed the Berlin Wall and Khomeini
they are missing the real story inside Saudi Arabia.

Nice poetry.

Are you the bard of South Bound Brook ?

You have provided information which everyone knows; there are religious fanatics within Saudi Arabia whose activities the royals can't fully control.

You are also correct that these same people would like to topple the House of Sad, much like the Iranian royals were in the 1970's. Imagine, there are people who are willing to turn prosperous Saudi Arabia into another third world country like Iran.

You have still to provide evidence that the royals were aware or had knowedge of the financing of any of the terrorist activities against the United States.

Hritzko

Blue blood bard
as in collar, working class with pride
CIA New England Yale WASPS aint got a clue
The wife of Prince Bandar Bush wired money to the hijackers.
Was it for girl scout cookies?
Iran has new highways and bridges unlike BigDigland
they vote unlike Wahhabiland
Armenian Christians are represented in the Iranian Parliament
Crosses arent allowed in Wahhabiland
Blowback, as in Chalmers Johnson is coming.

Where'er the Catholic sun doth shine
There's lots of laughter and good red wine.
At least I've always found it so,
Benedicamus Domino.

Saudi Arabia had the good luck of having the worlds largest oil deposits and a tiny population.

If you cant manage to get out of the third world, you would have to be trying to fail.

Billions of profits in the land of the prophet were wasted on baroque style which will leave them broke when the wells run dry, all will not be well.

If revolution against the House of Hanover was justified in 1776, how could revolution against the House of Saud not be justified?

So are we to support them because of wealth?
A wise man said "You do not live by bread alone."

If the world continued consuming oil at the current rate, we would have 200 years of reserves in those 'sandy' countries. There is a lot of oil there - the wells will not "run dry' in our lifetimes.

Iraq which is now estimated to have as much oil as Saudi Arabia, and Iran which has more oil than it can pump out of the ground are the regions which have remained "third world" probably because there is not US and western support - or did you forget ?

Saudi Arabia on the other hand has been "trying" with western support and seem to be doing better than the vast majority of their neighboors. This does not mean there is not more work to be done to improve their society.

Oil today is very much what gold was in the past. Oil has now replaced gold as the sigle most important 'tool' which can contract and/or expand the worlds money supply, and thereby lead to global economic prosperity, or hardship. The term 'black gold' is perfectly suited for oil.

Clearly we can't permit Saudi Arabia to have it's oil production shut down by a few fanatical muslims. These few people could destroy the worlds' economies and bring extreme economic hardship to the entire world.

Therefore even if Saudi Arabia where to be 'shut down' for a time while some 'House' house cleaning was done in 'Sad', we could 'crank up' Iraq's production (remember they are now estimated to have as much as the Saudi's) and ensure there was no shortage of global oil.

To compare revolutionary America (circa 1776) to current Saudi Arabia is absurd. Revolutionary America was inhabited by Christians who wished unshakle themselves from a foreign monarchy which was bleeding them dry because of it's global imperial ambitions. The Saudi royal government on the other hand has the most generous social welfare program of the region for it's people and provides a standard of living comparable to many parts of the industrialized world. In fact, many Saudi's do not work at all, do not even serve in their own army, and have unlimited access to higher education. How can you possibly compare that type of lifestyle to revolutionary America or even 'post-revolution' Iran (which is where they will end up if the fanatic Muslim were to take over) ?

O.K. - This is my last post to you unless you give specific details about the USA Bin Laden wedding you mentioned.

Hritzko

The Turkic spreaking secular Shia Azeris now have the largest oil supply which explains why the West flip-flopped in the Azeri-Armenian struggle and again adopted an anti-Christendom policy. You can not serve G-d and Mammon.

The previous post has the tone of the WSJ or Economist or the CFR. The specifics are in the book "House of Saud, House of Bush" or the film for $7.50. Sorry, it wasnt a detail of particular import to me, my memory fails me. Moore is correct, it is basic Law Enforcement 101 to interview relatives. This is taught at the FBI Academy in Quantico, VA. They were not interviewed, but flown out when the rest of the country was grounded. Did the Bush-Saud connections have an impact? Yes.

Logic dictates providing for a nation of 15 million is easier than a country of 70 million with comparable resources. Is the standard economics or the ability to spread the message of Christ? G-d or Mammon? Crusaders or Capitalists?
St. Louis over Adam Smith.


"AL MA SEE KAM, MIN BYE NIL AM-WAT" over "Allah Akbar."

No - I minored in Economics and have a Masters of Business Administration degree.

I paid $9.00 (everything is more - excuse the pun - expensive in Boston) and saw the movie 'Spiderman' over the weekend. I also loved to read the comic books when I was a teenager. Although I can't remember all of the specifics (my memory fails me), I sometimes still dream of leaping over traffic at rush hour. Maybe someday we can do a comparative review of the two movies and printed materials .

Read my statement above. Again, they were interviewed by the FBI, and had every aspect of their foreign relations reviewed by the CIA. If there had been any shread of evidence that they were involved in the attacks, or any other illegal activities, it would have been in the best interest of the secret service to keep them in the country and keep a close watch on them to further determine their role in the events, terror cells, funding of the activities, etc...
Again, there was no evidence at all. They were asked to leave because of the overwhelming anti-Saudi sentiment in the the USA. Their well being could not be guaranteed by the American government which had a special obligation to ensure their safety.

Yes, Bush was the President of the United States and had an obligation as leader of this country to ensure that the Saud royals (equivalent of diplomats) who are from a 'friendly nation' were not put in harms way.

Canada has a lower standard of living (ie: lower annual income per person and Gross National Product) than does the United States. Yet Canada with it's vast hydrocarbon (oil and gas) energy reserves in Alberta and offshore Newfoundland, and Hydro-electricity in Quebec, has the potential to produce and even export far more energy per year than does it's neighboor to the South.

Using your logic, Canada should be as rich as Saudi Arabia, whereas the United States as poor as Iran.

How does your economic "logic dictate" the above which is incongruent with the statements you have made about the countries in the middle east ?

Yes - Happy belated fourth of July to you too

Hritzko

Canada has a higher life expectancy(despite socialized medicine), lower corruption ( according to Transparency International) much lower homicide rate and lower crime across the board in a diverse society. GNP and Quality of Life are not synonomous. In Quality of Life according to UN statistics, Canada bests its assertive neighbor to the south. Luxembourg, Singapore and Switzerland are tops in quality of life. Smaller populations have an easier time in quality of life.
The film also shows the Secret Service protecting the Saudi Embassy and chasing Michael Moore from filming across the street. The Saudi connection to Al-Qaeda (Arabic for Sacrifice) is a million times stronger than the Baathist Iraq-Al-Qaeda connection. Saudi Arabia is no friend of Jeffersonian liberty.