www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall All Iconographers, A little Bit of Help?

Glory be to Jesus Christ!

I'm right now working on my fifth icon, the Resurrection, for a friend. I needed some of our prestigious iconographers to check some of the proportions of the image I've drawn on the board. Here's the actual image link: Rough Sketch [photobucket.com]

Reference Icon [iconsexplained.com]

I'll have that font up soon that I was asked about, but until then I was just asking for advice, this is the first icon I'll ever do that's done freehand. So please pray for me, this is gonna be...interesting.

Here\'s the Font! [photobucket.com]

Nathan, I sent you a private message

I just got it, thank you.

Nathan- that font looks perfectly fine to me!
-Daniel

Nathan:

Although I do not know you at all, I am glad to see that you are interested in iconography. May God bless you and your work.

You asked for some feedback on your scetch, so here are my two (or 3) cents.

Point #1

My teacher encouraged me to copy all my models exactly by tracing. It is not cheating to trace, in fact it is liberating. When tracing we are not tempted to embelish, "fix", or reduce the Image. We are free to learn and enter into a relationship with the Person(s) within the Icon. This also keeps our 'ego' out of the icon, and allows for the theology that we might not fully understand to shine through.

If I need to enlarge or shrink an image I often use a photocopier and home made transfer paper, or even an overhead projector. (Many of us do it, and I bet that if the iconographers of 1000 years ago had them, they would have used them too.)

If you study icons alot and you will get to know the theology of the lines and curves. When one does understand them well, it would be okay to try to sketch it by hand, but untill one becomes a "Znamenetel" (or at least on the way to becoming a vetran iconographer) I would suggest careful copying. I have studied this stuff for years and I still don't have the confidence to try it with a festal icon myself.

Perhaps this passed down advice may help.

Point #2

Annother thing that my teacher warned me about is trying to attempting a feast day icon when I was a novice. (You did say that this was icon #5 for you, right?) Is this icon a bit ambitious for you? Please, forgive me if I am wrong. Let your teacher and/or priest and your prayerful discernment by your guides.

I tried one a number of years ago when I was not ready. I prayed hard, took my time and did my best, but it is difficult. The end result looked... well perhaps I should have waited a bit.

I was warned not to attempt more complicated images (such as feastdays) again untill I got good at simpler images such as Christ, the Theotokos and the saints.


Point # 3 (and my last one)

"The Ressurection", as far as I understand, is not an icon that is should be written. (Obviously many people don't agree with this, because there are many examples of this icon, but the same can be said of the "New Testament Trinity" which depicts the Father as a white bearded man, and the Holy Spirit as a dove.) Theologically it is not something that we can do. I was told, taught, and read that this festal event is too great to depict. (I think Fr. Stephan Bingham wrote a book or paper on this if you want to read up on it.)

The "proper" and "cannonical" icons that are used around the feast of Pascha do not depict the ressurected Christ comming out of the tomb (such as your model), but rather, the Descent into Hades (showing the raising of Adam...) and the Myrh Bearing Women (depicting the angel at the empty tomb). Again, I recomend seeking your teacher and/or priest with choosing your models.

(Although to contradict myself, it is traditional to depict the ressurected Christ on the reverse side of a processional cross, I haven't yet figured out how to reconcile this.)

I hope I am not discouraging you. In fact I applaud your efforts, and your willingness to ask for advice. Keep up the good work.

Kadylo

In one school of iconography the first icon painted is the Transfiguration.
That would eliminate, right off the bat, all but the most talented and serious students!
Other schools assign an easier first icon, often the Holy Face, or one of the simpler Mother of God icons.
As for not portraying the Resurrection, or saying that the one Nathan is doing is "not an icon" may I remind everyone that in iconography there are a million opinions parading as absolutes, and a lot of nonsense.
I once had a long drawn out internet discussion about the portrayal of St Joseph. The Orthodox participants insisted that St Joseph should never be portrayed touching the child Jesus. This would imply physical relationship and diminish the doctrine of the Virginity of Mary.
I and others pointed out that there are icons of St Simeon holding Christ, and that five hundred years of the portrayal of the Holy Family and of St Joseph holding Christ among the Roman Catholics had not done any damage at all to the doctrine of Mary's Virginity. It was also pointed out that the alleged canon against this portrayal could not be ancient and pre-schism as devotion to St Joseph was a relatively late development in the Church. I suspect that the alleged canon was mostly based on antiCatholic sentiment.
Anyway, the point is that there is little that can be said that does not admit exceptions in iconography.
-Daniel

Thank you.

I agree, I do see several oppinions on the properness of this particular icon. Infact, I myself am a little confused with depicting Christ resurrecting (see my earlier comment about processional crosses).

I did not intend to imply that the icon of the Resurrection is 'not an icon' or that he should stop, although I guess I did say that a bit. Sorry Nathan.

I do still think that he (Nathan) as well as myself and all other iconographers, should choose a model with the help of our spiritual directors.

As for the other: I never heard about writing the Transfiguration first. Cool. I learn something every day. I can see the spiritual reason for it. I still think that it is sound advice (from another perspective) to keep things simple at first too.

Nathan:
However you proceed (and you should proceed) do so with joy and prayer.

Iconophile:
Thank-you for teaching me.

Kadylo

Yes, there is a sort of logic to it; the Transfiguration icon is the one that most directly portrays Divine Light, which is what it is all about.
It is, of course, also a highly complex and challenging one. I attempted it once and pretty much failed, and haven't tried it since, sticking for the most part to simple "portrait" icons...
-Daniel

Well, this is nice.

Fr. Tom has been assisting and teaching me in the iconography arts, but it never hurts to get other people's opinions.

I was wondering what each of you do to prepare for an icon, cause I just start writing and let things progress as it wills. I just know so very very little and I know I know little, if anything.

Yes, Kadylo, this is my fifth icon, although it never feels like it's anything beyond my first. I've been encouraged by some of the people in my parish to not use patterns but to learn how to write the patterns free hand, which has been nothing short of a pain. I've noticed that proportion is everything, and that if your measurements are off, so is the whole icon. It's been...interesting.

I'll have what I did on the icon up tomorrow when I have access to the camera, as well as a clear enough head to take a good picture.

http://photobucket.com/albums/a225/SpydersWebbing/

There's the link to the rest of my work, as well as a few personal pics of Mt. St. Macrina, so have fun with that. Please let me know what you think.

http://photobucket.com/albums/a225/...on/?action=view&current=87245a5f.jpg

Updated the icon a little bit, Jesus is in purple.

I'm probably gonna elminate the angels, and add some white light burts come from Christ in the final, and for those that have seen the Dormition in my church, think that.

http://www.byzantinecatholic.com/photos/PhotoAlbum3/Byz31.html

That's what I'm talkin bout, now granted I'm not gonna add the angels, but the lightbursts I'm diggin.

What a beautiful church!!!!

That's just one quarter of a wall....Fr. Tom's a wonderful iconographer.