www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Why do you attend a BC parish?

Well, Carson Daniel, congratulations on your fidelity to the Catholic Church! :rolleyes:

Seriously, though, it's very disheartening to see how quickly some Byzantine Catholics would jump ship if things were different. I take it liturgy and praxis are more important than our treasured beliefs of the everlasting nature of marriage, of no contraception, etc.

Logos Teen

Teen Logos,

Dogma trumps ethics any day. The only issue would be the loss of communion with the Bishop of Rome. But then the Latin Catholics have no communion with the other patriarchs. It isn't about praxis. If the pope can't influence his own wayward children one wonders if communion with him makes that much difference. Or put another way, perhaps a better way, the mission of the EC Churches is to unite the two lungs. I can love the pope from the East just as much as I can love him now...which is a deep love.

CDL

BTW If I believed every sarcastic remark made about me I'd be much more complex a character than I really am.

Ah, okay. I guess I never considered that Protestants could go directly BC. Sigh...

God bless,

Karen

LT,

I wouldn't consider myself to be "jumping ship" if I "doxed", and I sort of resent the implication that those of us BCs who would do so (which are many, according to the poll) are somehow traitors. For me, going RC just wouldn't be an option... I know myself, and if I went back to the Latin rite, I'd end up just going through the motions and eventually stop going to church. Better an on-fire Orthodox than a lukewarm Roman Catholic, imo. I also happen to think that the East is on the right track theologically and spiritually.

Re "liturgy and praxis being more important than our treasured beliefs...", again there's that false dichotomy that worship and doctrine can be separated. They can't.

And besides, one can be Orthodox and still regard abc as gravely sinful, as I would. I understand that one of the patriarchs came out with a document condemning abc.

Re the "everlasting nature of marriage", divorce rates among Catholics is sadly the same as those of non-Catholics. Yeah, we officially claim to not recognize divorce, but hypocritically grant tons of annulments. So really, is the RC Church any better than the Orthodox in that regard?

God bless,

Karen

Logos Teen,

Whenever I attend a RC Mass, I feel so out of place because everything is very foreign to me.

Whenever I attend an Eastern Liturgy, I feel at home.

There was a long period of time where I stopped going to my UGCC parish for various reasons and I went for about 5 or 6 weeks to a Serbian Orthodox Church that is literally right in my backyard and I loved it.

I see no difference between Orthodox and Eastern Catholic. We are one and the same, IMO.

So in response to the poll, if there was no BC parish around, I would 'Dox in a heartbeat.

-uc

Teen,

Sarcasm is not necessary or appropriate. Your comment is out of line.

With all due respect, you have no idea what my reasons are for my considering becoming Orthodox. I assure you that it has much more to do with dogma than with praxis. There are dogmatic teachings of the Roman Catholic Church that I am not sure I assent to. Is that a good enough reason to "jump ship"? I am researching, studying and asking questions to find out what I believe and where I am best suited to be.

You have made an assumption that I (and others) would "jump ship" and make a change simply for the externals of liturgical style. I assure you that there is far more than that.

Surely by now you know, if not me, at least CDL better than to assume that his change (were tehre to be one) would be nothing more than looking for the "feel good liturgy of the year". Give us some credit for being a less flighty than that.

Carole

Attending liturgy at an Orthodox church (for Liturgical worship purposes) due to a lack of a BC parish nearby would always be my first choice. I will still be a Catholic. There will avail opportunities for communion, though it would be less frequent and likely much more meaningful.

If one examines the fact that the BC Divine Liturgy is essentially identical to the Orthodox Divine Liturgy, (give or take some litanies and the commemoration of Pope/Patriarch & Bishops), It makes more sense in my views of the situation to keep contact with our more closely seperated brethren in the Eastern churches than to attend Mass in the RCC.

All said and done, my opinion means little, so I don't worry much about the situation when it arises.

Steve

I'm quite left rather speechless by this whole thread.
On many levels I am perplexed.

Dear Pyrohy,

Then why not just state, "I go there for the Pyrohy."

I knew my comment would draw a firestorm of comments, perhaps because there is some truth to it...

First of all, Dan, I was wrong to single you out. I have no doubt of your love for the Pope, and never suggested one loves him more from the West than the East. My opinion, however, remains.

MizByz,

Certainly, it seems that on this board the number of ECs readily willing to leave the Catholic Communionn of Churches should anything befall your Byzantine Catholic Church is quite large! Of course we both know that sheer numbers or percentages do not justify an action. And I would agree with you that it would be better to be a believing Eastern Orthodox than a Roman Catholic who doesn't attempt to practice her faith, but would it really have to be one of the two? Do you really have so little liking for the Roman Church that you could not be an active and faithful follower of Christ were you to be a part of it? I find this...frankly, shocking and cannot understand it!

We all know that the Eastern Orthodox have made exceptions to the ABC rule as you call it, so let's not get hung on up semantics here. The teachings really do seem to be different.

As far as divorce, I fail to see your logic or your point. Just because many Roman Catholics do not follow the Church's teachings in this regard do not invalidate the teachings. I feel that you know this and are simply using this to make your point, knowing full well that it's completely illogical. Most of the bishops during the Arian heresy were Arians...but did that make it the truth? You get my point...

UkrainianCatholic,

I understand and appreciate your sentiments, but there are real differences between Byzantine Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, and the Orthodox would be the first to tell you so. To deny this is to be dishonest.

Carole,

You're right, I do not know for what reasons you would become Orthodox. You mention dogmata of the Roman Church that you do not know you assent to; may I remind you that the dogmata of the Roman Church is no different than that of our Eastern Catholic brethren. Dogmata have to be believed, i.e. are essential to the faith. Therefore ours and yours are the same, but are not the same as the Orthodox. If you believe there are "dogmas of the Roman Church" that you don't assent to, I'd say those same dogmata of the Eastern Catholic Churches you don't assent to and encourage you to consider Eastern Orthodoxy or risk being intellectually dishonest with yourself.

And I'm giving credit where credit is due, Carole. I don't think it's all about the feel good liturgy of the year as you put it, and don't think you are flighty; rather I think this type of apparent intellectual dishonesty is problematic for many Byzanntine Catholics here and I'd rather see them resolve this by moving to the Eastern Orthodox Communion rather than trying to defend the indefensible and explain the inexplicable in their Byzantine Catholic Churches, all the while denying Catholic teachings.

Logos Teen

Dear Teen of the Incarnate Logos,

You posted,

"Do you really have so little liking for the Roman Church that you could not be an active and faithful follower of Christ were you to be a part of it? I find this...frankly, shocking and cannot understand it!"

Isn't it the Roman Catholic Church that wants neither to be Roman Catholic nor to Faithfully follow Christ. How can an individual Christian be a Faithful follower of Christ actively participating in a Church that molds its lived (Though not neccesarily formely stated in books and such) Faith to the whims of society? Christians need Orthodox prayer (not humanist, modernist, etc.), Fasting, and Faithfully Dispensed Holy Mysteries. Without these marvelous things, the Christian will most likely falter.

Logos Teen,

If the Pope banished the Tridentine Liturgy, Latin, smells and bells, forced all priests to be married, stated the filioque will no longer be recited, decided to wear a suit and tie, stated that all liturgical music must now be sung as Penticostal and Evangelical Revival songs, and asked all religious statuary to be removed from Churches - would you remain Latin Catholic and not consider your other options?

Teen,

I don't quite know what InCogNeat3 was writing about but I have much to say about why I would not become RC and it mostly has to do with your liturgy. I believe our life of prayer is the soul of the Church. For the most part the Novus Ordo, as it is practiced, is a far cry from a reverential Liturgy. It is a far cry from the holy and reverential liturgy of days gone by. The songs are light weight. Many American RC Churches have lost their ability, apparently to sing. The Gregorian Chant is supposed to be your standard but it is almost impossible to find. You rarely use incense and when I've asked why the usual answer is "the people don't like it." Lord, have mercy! Many of your bishops seem in open rebellion against the pope and many of the teachings of the Church.

But mostly, that is not my business. It is yours and I don't wish it to be mine so I will not go. I will pray for RCs. I will worship with you. I will invite you to the BC Church. I will give thanks for the faithful witness.

But far too much has been thrown away. Reclaim your patrimony.

BTW I would not hesitate being part of St. John Cantius. In fact, I would support that parish even if I Doxed.

CDL

Karen,

A good topic.

But I didn't answer your poll because I thought the first question was poorly worded: too limiting. I became interested in Eastern Christianity a few years ago through the ministry of my then spiritual director. He is bi-ritual Catholic priest: Ukrainian Catholic and Roman Catholic. From him, I learned of the Eastern Christian mindset, spirituality, theology, and praxis. I found therein the mystical element to religion that I had not found in the Roman Catholic Church and that I had been looking for. I spent a couple of years reading as much as I could --mostly Orthodox books and some of the Fathers. This past autumn (2005), I started attending Divine Liturgy. It was reverent and filled with religious mystery and awe, and I loved it. Then I came to know the people (online here and in person at my local BC parish), and I came to know of their deep, abiding love for the Byzantine Church as well as experiencing their warm welcome of me. So, it was a combination of four factors that have led me to the Byzantine Catholic Church: spirituality, theology, liturgy, and the people.

As for your second question, I would probably attend a Roman Catholic parish if there were not an Eastern Catholic parish available. I love Orthodoxy, but I find my calling to be in the Catholic Church. For me, being in communion with the Bishop of Rome is a reflection of the Eucharistic Itself: Christ uniting all to Himself and with each other. I know that some others at this Forum don't share that belief, and I respect that, but that is what I believe, and that is why I personally would attend a Roman Catholic parish if an Eastern Catholic parish were not available.

-- John

I know this will scandalize some and I apologize in advance

If there was no BC Church I would attend and receive communion in an Orthodox church

To me there is really no substanial difference.

The divisions are made by man not God.

Hold on to your hats What is preventing union? In my humble opinion it is many the hierachy who want to preserve their base and position.

As well as a few people who want it their way. Isn't it more important to worship God than argue about pews.

Isn't church about worshiping God. let's get past the outward motions.

Forgive me for being so blunt. But as I get older I get tired of the some of the pettiness.