www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Religious groups rally for immigrants

It is very strange that not so long ago governments were telling their people that immigrants created jobs. Immigrants have needs and spend their money locally as well as send their money o'seas to family who also spend their money. They pay rent to land lords they pay for houses to be built etc etc.

ICXC
NIKA

I support all LEGAL immigrants and oppose all ILLEGAL immigrants.

CDL

Christ is Risen!

Goodness gracious! No, you did not offend me.

Thank you. A Legal Permanent Resident must wait and stay in the country in a more or less permanent basis for 5 years (short trips abroad do not really count, unless they are too frequent), before you are elegible to apply for citizenship through naturalization.

In our case, that means our application can go through in the Fall of 2009.

Oh, sure. I know at least a couple of people who have abused of the system with this particular cheat and I can certainly share your rage.

By the way, both of these persons are "legal".

It would take an extreme case of dispair for an "illegal" to go this way and it is not because "illegal" immigrants are always a model of honesty (I do not trick myself into this kind of delusion), but rather because of a similar reason as the one I mentioned that makes "illegals" better tax payers than "legals".

If the USCIS can proove to you that you have milked the system by receiving free services other than emergency assistance, that is enough to decline your application for citizenship.

Please do notice this has nothing to do with cheating. This disqualification applies even in honest-to-goodness cases.

Now, a false disability claim is not only milking the system, it is fraud and, as such, a felony and, as such, grounds for deportation, even if you are legally in the country.

As deplorable and despicable as the least of my sins, so as I pray for mercy for my sins, I also pray for mercy for all my fellow members of this forum.

May the Light of the Risen Lord enlighten us all.

Shalom,
Memo

Another Christian reason for opposing ILLEGAL immigration (of Hispanics or any other race) is that those who choose to immigrate LEGALLY are hindered in their efforts to get jobs and create a better life and a better future for their families without breaking any laws.

If that's hostile, sorry. But it continues to irk me that so many people are refusing to make the distinction between LEGAL and ILLEGAL immigrants. LEGAL immigrants are a blessing and are more than welcome, and we need lots more!

One might think so, but if you read some of what Memo has to say about the immigration system, it is not at all clear. Indeed, it may be the case, especially for those at the bottom of the economic ladder, that the surest way to become a legal immigrant is to immigrate illegally, establish a record as a good "citizen", then apply for legal status. This idea was reinforced in some of the proposals for new legislation.

And it continues to irk me that so many people are refusing to make the distinction between civil legal matters and matters of charity.

This post and others like it refuse, obstinantly in my opinion, to acknowledge that some of us clearly differentiate between legal and illegal immigration. They refuse to acknowledge that we are not addressing the civil legalities but the need for compassion and charity to alleviate human suffering.

Stop confusing my belief that any religious group in this country should be barred from offering charitable help to human beings in need by our government with a wholesale support of illegal immigration.

Do not confuse my belief that our country's customs and immigrations laws need some serious reworking to be more equitable and more easily understood with a belief that illegal immigration is not a problem.

Clearly it is.

But I say again, this is not about the civil legalities. This is not about anything other than the Church following Christ's command to "Do unto others" to "Love your neighbour" to bring to all people His word. This is about charity.

That people refuse to see that this is about charity and not politics is maddening. And the venom and vitriol that are accompanying the opinions should have no place anywhere in our lives as Christians but certainly not here on this board.

"Uncle"!!

You're all right. I give up. Let's just open the borders and let everyone in. No limits, no challenges, no boundaries. I'm sure everything will work out jusssttt finnneeee ...

Huh, Chaldean? I said NOTHING against illegal immigrants... maybe I misread your collectively addressed post below, but I sure as heck don't see the bishops who have spoken in favor of illegal immigrants as Marxists or whatever label may have been applied to them. Cardinal McCarrick actually expressed where I tend to lean in his comments. See http://www.adw.org/news/news.asp?ID=362&Year=2006.

We have to treat our fellow human beings with justice and mercy, no matter where they come from. To do any less is to do the unChristian. All cynicism aside, laws often change because situations arise to make us collectively scratch our heads and ask: what is "the just" here? what is "the merciful?" That is what is going on right now and there are a variety of opinions, some extreme, some not so extreme, that have to be considered in coming up with a solution.

This issue is so complicated that, again, I would urge prayer on it because we need His guidance for our nation.

Hello,

Christ is Risen!

A couple of comments:

I wouldn't call this a reason for opposing illegal immigration, rather, a reason for looking for creative ways to make the legal immigration system work effectively and efficiently in both ways:

1. To make sure the people who wish to legitimately exercise the right to look for a better future in a country other than the one they were born are granted that opportunity.

and

2. To make sure the borders remain secure and those who only want to come here to do harm are effectively kept out.

One concern doesn't deny the other. Yes, I understand that in an effort to achieve the first goal you might miss a few individuals that fall into the second goal and viceversa.

No system will ever be perfect.

But 12 million???!!!

This is true. And to see how much, let's take a look at some numbers.

Let's imagine you were born in Mexico and want to immigrate to the US, through a relative of yours who is a "US Person" (this includes citizens and in some cases, legal permanent residents).

You want to do things right, so you filed your application, remained in Mexico waiting for the US government to process your application.

Well, according to the May 2006 Visa Bulletin (just out, as this is published monthly around the 15th of the previous month), you can expect your application to be processed in the near future according to the following:

If you are an unmarried, non-minor son or daughter of a U.S. Citizen, if you applied on or before 1/1/1991.

If you are the spouse or minor and unmarried child of a Legal Permanent Resident, if you applied on or before 6/15/1999.

If you are an unmarried, non-minor son or daughter of a Legal Permanent Resitent, if you applied on or before 9/1/1991.

If you are a married son or daughter of a U.S. Citizen, if you applied on or before 1/1/1993.

If you are a brother or sister of a U.S. Citizen, if you applied on or before 8/15/1993.


To the system's credit, I have to say that parents, spouses and minor, unmarried children of U.S. Citizens are not subject to waiting times, their applications are processed immediately.

In every other case, are these times reasonable?

I understand that married children and siblings of Legal Permanent Residents be excluded, but in the case of their parents, there should be a legal way to bring them to this country, especially with these kinds of waiting times, as anybody should be entitle to take care of their elderly parents.

Currently there are special processing dates for Mexico, China, India and the Philipines. The rest of the world goes with a 5th set of rates and although these are more reasonable than the 4 countries signaled out (because of volume, of course), it still takes several years for every category.

And on top of all that, having an immigration application submitted, disqualifies the potential benficiary from any type of visitor's visa, effectively keeping families separated for decades at a time.

What I am trying to say is that EVERYBODY agrees we need immigration reforms and we all understand the legitimate concerns about border control and economic viability of the immigration flow.

But the problem is real right now and it is much more complex than a terrorist wanting to get into the country to attack you and much more complex than you not getting the job you want because an immigrant got it before you.

About the first concern, I'd say that all 19 hijackers responsible for the 9/11 attacks were legally in the country. Some of them even received extensions to their visas posthumously after the attacks!

About the second concern, I'd say the solution is self improvement. You want a job an immigrant has right now? Become better at that job than the immigrant!

Some previous posts have denounced some positions regarding this issue as hypocritical.

Well, how hypocritical is to claim that democracy is the only acceptable government system, worth even the war in Irak, when you deny the right to vote to tens of millions of people who work in your country, pay taxes, etc.?

How hypocritical is to claim that free market is the only acceptable economic system, when you are unwilling to face fair competition from us immigrants?

Blessings!

Shalom,
Memo

Please point out one instance in which I, or anyone else, who has spoken in favour of churches, religious organizations and private charities offering assistance to people in need without regard to their citizenship or immigration status, has advocated that we "open the borders and let everyone in. No limits, no callenges, no boundaries."

You would be very hard pressed to find one such comment. At least not if you were being intellectually honest.

The point that everyone is missing is that this discussion is not supposed to be about politics or immigration law. It is about CHARITY and the ability of the federal government of the United States to interfere in the charitable activities of religious organizations.

But if you would prefer to continue to be snide and put words in the mouths of other, please do continue. You only end up hurting your own credibility in the long run.

My church has a ministry to migrant workers. We work in conjunction with a larger RC parish. I have been working in this for 3 or 4 years. I am profoundly changed by the experience. This last year I met boys as young as 14 (smart boys, and very funny!)who had left their homes and families to come here to pick tomatoes for 30 cents a bucket (a huge bucket - at least 8 gallons). I have met women who are pregnant, women who have left children in Mexico with grandmothers, and had the pleasure of attending a first communion for a very serious group of adults. I have met people who begged me to teach them English. And I have met people who begged me to help them get a lawyer so that they could become legal. They said they never wanted to have to cross the desert again, but wouldn't talk about it. If you really want to know about the situation, perhaps turning off the news on your radio and TV and getting out in the world and seeing the situation first hand would be a step in the right direction. It is difficult to vilify a friend.

Dear LaFamilia,

Thanks for your post which adds a personal and human perspective to this topic.

In Christ,
Alice

Here's my personal story of why I agree 100 pct with posters like Spdundas.

In the mid-late 1990's I had a good paying teamsters job at a bakery just 12 minutes from my house. Just days before the new millenium I had to quit to care for my mother full time. After she passed away in March of last year, I went back to the company figuring I had a good chance of being rehired. When I went to reapply however, I was told that since the company had filed for bankruptcy, that the State of Illinois was now handling all hiring and that I could only apply at one of there offices. What a run around that turned out to be. First I had to sit through an hour long talk, then I was required to undergo a series of math and reading tests, while I continually protested that all I wanted to do was to fill out a job application for a company I used to work for. Finally, after wasting hours of my time, I was told by a woman, who's English I could barely understand, that they were part of a program that helps low income and Spanish speaking applicants find work, AND that she was not allowing me to reapply to my old job unless I could provide bank statements, rent receipts, utility bills etc, that would indicate that I was financhially eligible. During this ordeal a couple of men walked around the room and asked those attending if they required any assistence filling out forums. And the worst part of all is that I pay taxes to the State of Illinois in order to receive this kind of abuse.

None of which, Lawrence, has anything to do with the point at hand, which is:

The federal government telling religious organizations and privately held charities to whom they can offer charity and making it a crime to offer aid to those in need.

I pray that none of you are ever in need of charitable assistance and the loving care of your fellow Christian and are treated with such hate as you exhibit here toward your bretheren.

It is shameful.

"None of which, Lawrence, has anything to do with the point at hand, which is:

The federal government telling religious organizations and privately held charities to whom they can offer charity and making it a crime to offer aid to those in need.

I pray that none of you are ever in need of charitable assistance and the loving care of your fellow Christian and are treated with such hate as you exhibit here toward your bretheren."

Carole, is it shameful to want to work in the country of one's birth? I'll bet you have a nice paying job.