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Pope John Paul II the Great? What does it take to have the title Great after your name for a Pope? Pope John Paul II was instrumental in helping the fall of communism in Russia. Does this qualify him as the Great? What are your thoughts?


Another Miserable Servant of God

Pope John Paul II the Great? What does it take to have the title Great after your name for a Pope? Pope John Paul II was instrumental in helping the fall of communism in Russia. Does this qualify him as the Great? What are your thoughts?

US Cold War "peace through strength' — both militarily and in the image of President Ronald Reagan daring to call the evil empire what it was — had as much if not more to do with it than Pope John Paul II. I'm not dismissing the Pope's contribution, however.

If he made like Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz and publicly excommunicated the Amchurchers and their fellow travelers worldwide, plus backed the work of people like Helen Hull Hitchcock's Adoremus group perhaps by making them some kind of papal institute working in and alongside the Roman congregation for divine worship (once the Congregation of Rites), plus made advances in relations with the Orthodox partly by "freeing' the Eastern Catholics from uniatism (scrap the Congregation for the Oriental Churches) then I'd add the capital-G Great to his name. He definitely gets a small-g great from me, though.

http://oldworldrus.com

Micael Goberchov (I can't spell his name) was quoted as saying, "Pope John Paul II made it possible for the collapse of communism". Apparently, he thought the Pope played an important role.

Thanks, aRomanCatholic@Work. Like I said before, I don't dismiss Pope John Paul II's role in it.

http://oldworldrus.com

I think the Vatican has done a lot to try and correct American dissenters. But the Vatican cannot always force people who are ignoring them to follow the line. JPII did censure Hans Kung, various Indian and Malaysian priests, excommunicate Lefebre, and exerise its role in many ways. John Paul II deserves the title "the Great" in my opinion.

anastasios

Dear RC@work,

(If anyone can provide me with the address of the Amchurch, I'd be happy to hurl the first excommunication!)

I personally think Pope John Paul II deserves the title of "The Great."

He restored great confidence in the Latin Catholic Church after being badly shaken following the immediate aftermath of Vatican II and the whole reform process.

He reinstated a very strong devotion to the Mother of God and brought back a sense of prayer and ascesis to the religious lives of Catholics.

He glories in his cultural/national background "Polonia semper fidelis!" and dedicated himself to activating the Local Church throughout the world where religious rites and cultural traditions express themselves most strongly. His many beatifications and canonizations have helped to support the work and identity of the Local Church as well.

He is a strong and widely-respected moral voice throughout the world. As Billy Graham said, "When the Pope speaks, the world listens."

He not only destroyed soviet communism, he reactivated the Catholic church in those countries and has done more for ecumenism with the Orthodox in many respects that any other single Pontiff since Pope John VIII in the time of St Photios . . .

Through his travels he has spread much good-will everywhere and has brought Rome - home to us.

In the wake of his travels, he leaves inspiration, renewed devotion to the Mother of God, and many so-called "papal" vocations to the priesthood.

He is a man of great prayer, praying 25 decades and more of the Rosary each day. He is the Pope of the Rosary and his other devotions and prayers amount to about 8 full hours of prayer daily.

He is a Pope who listens, who is open to people but, most importantly, someone who shows his love for all.

As someone who has met him, the electricity of that moment never ever leaves you.

A great man of God, to be sure.

Alex

I also believe that John Paul II will be referred to as "the Great" in the future.

His unwavering stand for the "seamless garment of life" is unequaled by anyone in our age.

May God grant Pope John Paul II many more blessed years!!

Miriam

I defer my own opinion and leave it to others of subsequent generations after I am long forgotten.

I think that looking at things in retrospect can sometimes bring a clarity that is lacking in the present moment. Lets not jump the gun here.

Stefan

HELLO ALL,

I FIRMLY BELIEVE (MY OPINION) THAT THE REASON I THINK POPE JOHN PAUL II WILL RECEIVE THE TITLE, "THE GREAT" BECAUSE OF MANY THINGS HE DID AS THE FOLKS MENTIONED HERE IN THIS PAGE...BUT I THINK MOST OF THE CREDIT WOULD BE DUE TO HIS TEACHINGS OF "THEOLOGY OF THE BODY." "THEOLOGY OF THE BODY" ITSELF IS A HUGH THEOLOGICAL TIMEBOMB....ONE OF THE GREATEST PART OF THEOLOGY. AND I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF HE'D EVENTUALLY BE NAMED NOT ONLY AS "THE GREAT" BUT AS THE DOCTOR OF THE CHURCH FOR BOTH EAST AND WEST.

I ENCOURAGE MOST OF YOU TO READ "THEOLOGY OF THE BODY." THAT ALONE IS THE GREATEST SOLUTION TO THE ENTIRE WORLD'S PROBLEMS....RANGING FROM POVERTY TO WARS TO HUNGER TO SEXUALITY.

I MEAN....MY EYES ARE WIDE OPEN NOW. THEOLOGY OF THE BODY TO ME IS LIKE "GLASSES" THAT I PUT ON...THAT EVERYTHING THAT GOD DOES, REPRESENTS, THE WORLD, SALVATION, INCARNATION, ADAM/EVE, EVERYTHING...BECOMES SOOOOOOOO UNBELIEVEABLY CRYSTAL CLEAR! IT'S LIKE BEFORE IT'S ALL FUZZY...BUT NOW IT'S ALL SOOO CLEAR.

NO ONE....WILL EVER..I MEAN...EVER BE THE SAME AGAIN...AFTER HE/SHE READS THEOLOGY OF THE BODY. I WILL NEVER SEE THE CHURCH OR EVEN GOD THE SAME WAY AGAIN! IT'S SOOO WONDERFUL AND IT'S TRULY A LIFE CHANGING EXPERIENCE NOT ONLY FOR ME BUT FOR MANY MANY MANY PEOPLE!

MAYBE....THAT'S WHY...POPE JOHN PAUL II WILL EARN THIS GREAT TITLE: "THE GREAT."

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

Богоявленiе/Theophany (old-style date) 2002

Christ is baptized!

Thanks for the book recommendation, spdundas. I'd like to remind you, though, that typing all in capital letters on the Internet is considered yelling. I'm not sure if it was a case of the caps-lock key being down by mistake or if you really wanted to SHOUT the message of Theology of the Body from the virtual housetops!

Alex: 25 decades? That's a lot of Hail Marys! Considering the entire Rosary cycle is 15 decades/mysteries, I wonder if you mean the Pope is praying 1 2/3 complete Rosaries a day, repeats his favorite mysteries or uses new and different ones (which one can do!), like the Russian Orthodox St Seraphim (Zvezdinsky) did.

http://oldworldrus.com

[ 01-19-2002: Message edited by: Serge ]

OKAY SERGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Haha. Sorry about the caps. I just watch a program this morning...on "internet/e-mail ettitique" and said that caps are considered "yelling." I didn't know that. Sorry.

Whoops! My boo-boo.

Funny you said that "Theology of the Body" is a book. Actually...it's not really a book...it's a teaching of Pope JP II. There's 15 plus years worth of talks by Pope JP II which were recorded on paper...and you're looking at volumes upon volumes.

So I recommend books written by Christopher West. He's known here in USA as an "expert" on JP II's Theology of the Body. And he does FANTASTIC job of summarizing it...putting it in lay man's terms...making it helpful for the dummies like me understand Theology of the Body. Christopher West also produced audio tapes and video tapes of his talks. He travels all over the country giving talks on that subject. And he is the "right hand" adviser on Theology of the Body for Archbishop of Denver and few other bishops. Powerful stuff! So....

And also...I wanted to point out...that although Theology of the Body is taught by Pope of Rome, the Patriarch of the West...it's very deeply rooted in Eastern Catholic spirituality (not neccesarily Byzantine only...). Although some of the terms in there have some western language in there...such as "original sin" or etc. but the whole concept is very very EASTERN.

It's absolutely fabulous!

It just makes me realize that Pope JP II really means it when he said that "The Light truly comes from the East" (Orientale Lumen). Pope JP II KNOWS that light do come from the East.

It really helps deepen my Byzantine spirituality beyond words....I can't describe how much the Theology of the Body change my life...my views on myself...my spirit...my Byzantine faith...and even changed my view on God Himself. It's as if I'm inside of the "True Light" (Jesus Christ)...as we say in church:

"We have received the True Light. We have received the heavenly spirit. We have found the true faith...worshipping the undivided Trinity...who hath saved us..."

Good day.

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

Dear Serge,

(Hope you will be around to read this!)

Yes, you are right, as per your usual.

The Pope has recommended other mysteries that can be used in the Rosary, which I know you too love and practice.

I don't know why the "25 decades," though.

St Louis de Montfort promoted the saying of the daily 15 decades, and then he talked of other "Rosaries" in addition (e.g. the Brigittine Rosary of 18 decades etc.).

I know that His Holiness favourite saint is St Louis de Montfort (his motto, "Totus Tuus" is a direct quote from Montfort) - perhaps he is following the rule of this saint.

(Serge, I too have "left" this Forum only to come back. We love you, we really do.)

Alex

I firmly would concur that JP should be known as "thre Great". I would say however, not due to any excommunication he did, which is really a failure in the excerize of the office of Universal Pastor, but because of the reconciling he has done.

K.