www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Christianity and Yoga...?

I have suffered with chronic back pain off and on for almost fifteen years. The last two years, it has become horrific, to the point that I was forced to quit work because of it (can't collect disability, since my doctor can't seem to give me a diagnosis of what's causing it.)All she's given me are pills that at best provide temporary pain relief,but have done nothing to correct the problem. I've done stretching, been through physical therapy, and a couple of different types of exercise and gotten no relief. The best I've managed to do is move the pain to different areas of my back and shoulder and concentrate it, rather than having it spread throughout my back.

Last week, I picked up some yoga videos- they were on sale dirt cheap- and have been doing yoga for several days now, and I have noticed quite an improvement. I am in a lot less pain, and feel more energetic and less stressed.

I've been seeing a lot of stuff on the 'net saying that Christians should not practice yoga, because even doing just the physical exercises can draw a person away from Christianity and into the Hindu belief system. This does not make sense to me. I'm not doing any chanting or invocations of gods- any meditation I do after I finish the exercises involves the Jesus Prayer. Also, I understand that the Hesychasts engaged in practices that involved body postures similar to Yoga postures, and I learned to pray the Jesus Prayer as a breathing meditation. All of this is accepted as part of Eastern Christian belief and practice. Also, weren't the rosary and chotki basically swiped from the Eastern religions as an aid to meditative prayer?

It seems to me that not practicing the physical yoga exercises (or any other Oriental wisdom relating to health and the care of the physical body)because of the association with the Hindu/Buddhist belief system is "throwing the baby out with the bath water." I also don't understand how a Christian should be forbidden to do the yoga exercises when all else has failed. It seems to me that a loving God would not want one of His children to suffer in pain when a means of relieving that pain is so easily accessible, especially when other means of trying to relieve the pain have failed.

Dear Thea Logica,

In my humble opinion: if you are secure enough in Christianity, and you know what is offlimits and what is not (btw, the practice of breathing the Jesus Prayer should be discussed with a spiritual father, because some say it is not to be embarked upon without spiritual guidance)---then I would definitely go ahead with the exersizes of yoga, since they help you so much.

In Christ,
Alice

I think you need to talk to your pastor or a religious superior about this. But, have you had an MRI on your back? It was only with that that I was diagnosed with an HNP in '92. I think an MRI would also show other soft tissue damage but I am not sure. I wish you the best.

Alice- the name Thea Logica means exactly what it sounds like. My real name is actually Loretto.

Tony- no I haven't had an MRI. X-rays and a CAT scan, but no MRI. My health care is through County Social Services, and they refused to approve an MRI for me when my doctor tried to order one. I'm having another CAT scan this week, and if it doesn't show anything, my doctor is going to try to get approval for an MRI since she will have then met the requirement for "prudent diagnostics".


Meanwhile, I think I'm going to stick with the yoga exercises, since it is helping me a lot with the pain.

There is no evidence that the use of prayer beads by Christians was borrowed from "Eastern religions"...unless of course you mean the Eastern church

Dear All,

Actually today I heard the history behind the creation of the knotted chotki...it is attributed to an early desert ascete who tried keeping track of his prayers with stones and such, but each time, legend has it, the devil made sure that they would scatter...so the many knotted chotki was then invented by this ascete with each knot made in the sign of a cross..because it would be impossible for the devil to undo these...and thus, the wool knotted chotki or komboskini.

I actually heard the story today on EWTN! It was a repeat broadcast of Fr. Archimandrite Eugene Pappas of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese explaining Orthodoxy to Mother Angelica--and talking about the unity of the churches. What he said was very beautiful--that it doesn't matter who DOESN'T want unity, the Holy Spirit will move through the people, and whether we want it or not, unity WILL happen!!!

In Christ,
Alice

Thea Logica,
Will the county services cover chiropractic care? They have worked wonders for some friends of mine.
Sam

Dear Thea Logica,

There is a book "Christian Yoga" by Dechanet you might be interested in - perhaps it can be found somewhere on the internet.

I've found prostrations to do wonders for my back - it is a natural spinal stretch.

There is strong evidence to suggest that the use of prayer-beads is something that is a development of Christianity itself.

The fact that Buddhists use them, for example, doesn't "have" to mean that Christians "borrowed from them and from the Hindus.

In fact, there is evidence to suggest that the Mahayana Buddhists borrowed things like mitres and other ritual items from the Assyrian Church of China.

In the time of the T'ang Dynasty in Tibet, we know that there were two Assyrian Archbishops and twenty bishops! (Stephen Neil "A History of Christian Missions").

Christians in Asia have been "inculturating" the disciplines there for some time, including Yoga and Zen.

There are Christian Zen Temples in places like Japan and Thomas Merton, of course, is an excellent example of a Christian missionary who entered into the disciplines of Asia and appropriated them for Christ and His Gospel.

In university, I came across a Catholic missionary to Asia (Scarboro Foreign Mission Society) who was a former Buddhist and who had brought many Buddhists to the Catholic Church. He and his converts continued to keep images of the Buddha in their homes. He made the argument that Buddhism CAN lead one to Christianity and many Asians actually choose to become Catholic because "the Catholic Church has statues just like Buddhism does."

The Church in Asia has even considered borrowing certain practices from the Buddhists, such as a one-year period of monastic formation in monasteries! Buddhists are not required to remain as monks, of course, but the discipline they receive there stays with them throughout their lives.

I think it would be great if all Catholics and Orthodox spent a similar formative time in their monasteries too!

Alex

I too, although not too surprisingly (if people know me), would say -- do not worry about Yoga, and even its philosophical ideals. Practice it.(Of course, I would say this. My Master's thesis followed the philosophical ideals of Yogacara Buddhism, and worked to show how they could help in Christology).


In India, I know it is even taught to seminarians.

Yes, the Church of the East's mission to China is interesting -- and very complex. They took a lot of Buddhist and Taoist ideas, like the Greek Fathers did with Hellenistic philosophy, and brought a theological synthesis together. Some would question how successful the synthesis was -- but it does appear that the Christian monks in China were serious in this project. One of the later leaders, Adam, one of the most famous of the monks -- helped Indian Buddhists translate Sanskrit Sutras into Chinese.

I am actually doing a paper on the Church of the East's mission to China, and the "Comparative Theology" elements behind it. I have not started writing it yet (I will soon -- it is due early May) -- but the research has been done.

Actually, no, they will not. They will not even cover a medical doctor who does not work at University Medical Center or one of its affiliated clinics. UMC is owned by the county, and they want to keep their money "in house", so if your doctor isn't helping you, you're out of luck. It is next to impossible to even get a change of primary care doctor within their clinic. Of course, since the clinic is staffed primarily by residents, interns, and marginally competent doctors who would not be able to sustain a private practice, getting a change of doctor probably wouldn't help much anyway. When it comes to the county's priorities in providing health care to the poor, having a patient get well is pretty far down on the list.

Alex and Henry, thanks. That was very interesting reading.

Actually, most of the anti-yoga things I've been getting come from Latin-rite and Protestant sources. Some of the Protestants claim that by simply doing the physical postures, your Kundalini will unlock and you can develop mental and psychological problems or even become possessed. I tend to discount these last, since they tend to think anything and everything is demonic. I once found a website which advised people to get rid of dolls, mah-hong sets and candles because they are demonic, and there was an article written by a woman who decided that the problems she was having potty training her child were because of demons, and did a "deliverance" while she forced him to sit on the potty seat.

Dear Thea,

One can practice "Christian Yoga" and this works both ways.

There are non-Christians who are teaching the Jesus Prayer as a mantra and for a fee . . .

The best thing would be to see if you can find a good priest who could be like a spiritual Father to you in this.

I had one, but he kept telling me to stay off the "Byzantine Forum!"

When I repeatedly refused to, he told me to get lost!

Hopefully, you'll have better luck than I in this endeavour!

Alex

Just to add my .02 cents ...

I also read all of the warnings from some Roman Catholics regarding yoga back when I first was in the process of converting. I read up on it because I am not a Jazzercise or aerobics type so yoga is one of my favourite forms of exercise (just the relaxation and stretches --not the weird pretzel twisty positions, though).

I can see where some folks could be fascinated by what some of the video instructors say which could lure them into reading New Agey books and end up spiritually straying. Therefore, I highly recommend being grounded in your faith (which it appears that you are) and staying away from the hokey yoga instructors as much as possible. Also stay away from any funky breathing exercises which are actually done for spiritual reasons (like how there are breathing techniques for the Jesus Prayer). Only do the normal in-and-out breathing that is necessary to the position, like when doing regular exercises.

There are a lot of knee-jerk reactions out there that attacks anything that is not completely understood. Understandable in some cases, ridiculous in others. You are doing the right thing by asking around as well as evaluating it yourself.

Michelle

Dear Michelle,

I think there was a time when RC priests and nunds were going "nutso" over Transcendental Meditation and the like in a most uncritical manner.

There was an article in the Catholic Digest way back when that said that priests and nuns thought nothing of making offerings of fruit and flowers to Hindu deities before certain meditation exercises and the like . . .!

So you are right - it is important to Christianize things, and not allow the reverse to happen.

Alex

Um, guys...

My Kundalini has escaped. I don't suppose you could help me catch it?

Oh, and Michelle, I wouldn't knock the twisty pretzel poses. I've tried a couple of them and found that I can stretch out kinks in areas I never dreamed I would be able to work loose, especially in the upper back in that unreachable spot between the shoulder blade and the spine, or in the sacroiliac joint. There are quite a few I haven't been brave enough to try yet, but as I get more flexible, I'm going to work my way into them.