www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Russian Orthodox - Good Job!

http://www.washtimes.com/world/20031008-113616-3077r.htm

I can think of many Catholic Churches which have been defiled.

Johan S.,

If you are aware of attempts at homosexual marriages in Catholic parishes you need to contact the appropriate bishop to make your accusation and provide your evidence. The Forum is not the place to make such serious accusations.

Admin

Forgive me administrator for not making myself clearer.

I said,

Defiled can include Homosexual marriages but it is not limited to that definition. Nor I was thinking of that definition when posting it.

Administrator, did you see EWTN's "The World Over" this week with Raymond A.? Encore episodes are being aired now. You can however as soon as they update their site visit here:

http://www.ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/SeriesSearchprog.asp?SeriesID=-6892288&NewList=&T1=world~over

Anyway Raymond A. had a priest as a guest in which they spoke about the liturgical abuses of the Church. The priest posted on TV several pictures of Clown Masses. This good priest stated that these Clown Masses had the blessing of the local Bishop.

This priest also spoke of Black Masses being said but he did not clarify. Nor did this priest make it clear that these masses where said in a Catholic Church.

I am of the opinion that a Clown Mass could be a defilement of a church. Admin, do you remember when a couple apparently had sex in New York's St. Patrick's Cathedral. This included an on-air play-by-play of the account via cell phone by an "Opie and Anthony" show. I would say this Church had been defiled by this action. Isn't their an old ritual we say in are Church when entering a defiled Sanctuary?


What would you define as a defilement administrator?

Perhaps when the priest said "Black Mass" he meant a Mass geared toward individuals of African ancestry? I don't think any Catholic church would willingly hold a Satanic "black mass"!

Dave

I think this is yet ANOTHER case of "the Sky is Falling" mentality

Chtec,

No I believe he was speaking of Satanic (Black) Masses. I could have been mistaken. But yes you are correct I SERIOUSLY doubt any Bishop would have been involved with that. I will have to watch to program again and make sure my facts are correct with regards to the Black Masses.

You know we have had very EVIL men as priest before. One only has to look the evil John Geoghan. I don't doubt there are other evil men out there.

Brian,

I guess what I was hoping for a discussion here was what is the proper procedure for a defiled Church? How is that procedure different from the Latin Church and ours. etc...


As far as the "sky falling" for some Latin Churches I think it has already fallen. Just a matter of sticking it back up there.

Johan,

Thank you for the clarification. One of the unfortunate problems with internet communications is that it is easy to think about one thing when composing a post yet for everyone else to think it means entirely something else. Since your post was about an attempted homosexual marriage in an Orthodox Church and included only a general comment about defilements in Catholic Churches the only possible interpretation of your post was that it was accusing the Catholic Church of similar defilements. Clown Masses simply cannot be compared to attempts at homosexual marriage. Further, �Black Mass� is a poor description of a cultural African-American Mass (which is not unlike an Italian Mass or a Polish Mass).

I would like to remind all participants to be both charitable and exact in your posts.

Admin

Well, I for one think that the destruction of God's Temple is disgusting, no matter the reasons. For shame!

The proper procedure for the restoration of a desecrated or defiled church edifice can be found in the Archieraticon. Unfortunately I don't know of any translation of this particular text into English. If the desecration had actually included a "Black Mass" in the satanic sense of that term, I would recommend an exorcism as well as the restoration/reconsecration.
On a much more edifying note, might I suggest that the Ethiopian Liturgy would be a good basis for a celebration of the Eucharist in an African or African-American setting? Incognitus

The 1973 Archieraticon has an abbreviated form of the service. There are several translations of the cleansing of a defiled temple available in English. Probably the most complete English translation available is that in the multi-volume Great Book of Needs (Velikij Trebnik) published by St. Tikhon's.

It has several options of service based on the nature of the defilement (church where murder happened vs. another type of liturgical sacrilege, etc), re-use of the church, etc.

Wasn't this same story making the rounds about a month ago? Wasn't it found to be an urban legend? I could be wrong but does anyone know?

Dan Lauffer

The Bishops of the church will sanction anything. The other night, i was watching the local news and they had a segment were the Bishop of St. cloud(MN) was starting a ministry to carnival, circus, and fairs. The priest could celebrate Mass as Clowns with face painted and the red nose. Another priest had his vestments made in a clown outfit.

Ah, but was the clown wearing high-backed vestments and a beard? Incognitus

No, he was not in hig-back vestments and a beard! They were Roman rite clerics