www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Heresy Complaint Filed against Kerry in Ecclesiatical Court

Where others fear to tread...

DE FIDE filed its first Libellus Litis (Bill of Complaint) in the Ecclesiastical Court of the Archdiocese of Boston:

Balestrieri v Kerry [defide.com]

Deacon John:

Is this serious or a put-on?

It seems to me that, though the subject matter is serious and may be long overdue, it makes the Church look a tad foolish when individuals instigate this type of thing. A few threads ago a Greek Orthodox priest asked the questions, "By whose authority?" I'd have to ask the same question of those who have initiated this.

It seems to me that this type of action should have been taken by the Bishops Conference about thirty years ago and we would not be down the path we are today. They have the authority and refused/failed/hesitated to use it. We are a hierarchical body, not a replica of the American court system. It may be the right course but is taken by the wrong people and at the wrong time. One editorial I recently read suggested that we are at a point where formal Church actions like this one would only boost a candidate who looks to the non-Catholic voter as being independent from being told what to do--that latent anti-Catholicism that lingers under the surface of American culture.

In Christ,

BOB

Bob,

I don't know if it's a joke, but the story was covered in yesterday's edition of The Washington Times [washingtontimes.com]

originally quoted by Theopan
I agree, but many Catholics are so liberal and independent minded, it may boost the number of Catholics who vote for him. It seems many Catholics want to prove to the world that being Catholic means being no different from anyone else. I also agree with you about the lines of authority. But who really thinks the American Bishops have the courage to enforce much of anything these days? That wouldn't be "charitable."

If we do not stand for something then we will fall for anything.

Let there be no mistake Abortion is one of the worst offensives against God. I for one will go out this world fighting against Abortion.

When I am dead and God has condemned me for all my sins I am hoping Millions of small voices will say, "have mercy on this one."

Kerry should not call himself a Catholic!

I was thinking about this issue the other day.
Are there any bishops formally speaking out against Kerry, or are they all too happy at the possibility of having a Catholic president, and keeping mum?

Sam

Something is wrong very wrong indeed. Children are denied the Eucharist until they have reached the age of reason. Those who have reached the age of reason and write or rather fabricate the laws in America that permit the murder of the innocent are not denied the Eucharist.

Can't the Roman Catholic faithful of the Latin rite rise up and demand that the bishops of the Latin rite do something and inform them that they are wrong.

The Roman Catholic Church has put forth a great effort to protect innocent children in the womb of their paternal mothers, so how could any Bishop with full knowledge of the matter not take a strong stand against those that write or promote life destroying pro-abortion laws.

God have mercy on all of us.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

In the civil law we recognize the following concept:

Standing to sue doctrine. "Standing to sue" means that a party has a sufficient stake in an otherwise justiciable controversy to obtain judicial resolution of that controversy. Black's Law Dictonary, 6th ed. at 1405.

Is there a similar notion in the Cannon Law?

Inquisitively,

hal

Whereas I don't necessarily think that this action is the most prudent, I don't see anything wrong with it either. It is not a layperson thinking they have an authority they do not. It is the right of a layperson to charge another layperson with heresy, but it is only the right of the bishop to decide on the truth of the charge. This action is merely doing that formally - it is asking the bishop of Boston to determine if Kerry is a heretic and therefore be censured.

So this does not take away from the authority of the bishops, it simply a formal way of asking them to do their job.

And Matthew, I am assuming you are Orthodox, and think the Catholic Church is alone in it's inaction against pro-abortion politicians who claim to be Catholic. Note that here in Maryland, one of our senators (Paul Sarbanes) is a practicing member of the Orthodox Church (Greek Orthodox), and is rabidly pro-abortion. He has been honored by Orthodox clergy, and I've not heard any of his priests or bishops stating that he has to change his pro-abortion positions.

The inability of bishops to find their spine, unfortunately, transcends Churches.

Catholic Man:

Have to agree with you 100%. Having said that, I must also say that I don't want to do anything that makes the appearance of my being a spokesman for the Church by my action. I don't want the witness of the Gospel to be officially scorned because of me. On the other hand, for my own actions, anyone can scorn me all he wants, whether it be fighting against abortion or for orthodoxy in doctrine.

Deacon John:

The Washington Times says it all for me. The liberal media loves this type of stuff because it gives them more ammo in their fight against the Church and her teaching which is the only objective presence standing against the type of total hedonism that they want to promote. After all, it is the Church that is the last voice consistently saying that there is something bigger than the individual and his own defined morality: Objective Truth is a big thing for them to try to overcome.

BOB

Dear Francis,

You are incorrect to state that there is not opposition to Senator Paul Sarbanes relative to his pro-abortion positions. As far as Orthodox clergy honoring Senator Paul Sarbanes, I agree with the article below written by Father Jacobse, a Priest in the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America.

Spines are personal and effect others.

http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles/JacobseSarbannesSnowe.shtml

I'm quite sure you would agree that it is good to see your quote was inncorrect. "The inability of bishops to find their spine, unfortunately, transcends Churches."

Below is some wonderful news from the Vatican, God Bless Cardinal Ratzinger!

Cardinal Ratzinger Orders Kerry Communion Ban

In a private memorandum, top Vatican prelate Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger told American bishops that Communion must be denied to Catholic politicians who support legal abortion.

While never mentioning Sen. John Kerry by name, the memo implicitly aims at the pro-choice Catholic Massachusetts senator and presidential candidate.

Ratzinger's ban is broad and includes all other pro-abortion Catholic politicians who are defying the church's ban on abortion.

According the Culture of Life Foundation, which obtained a copy of the confidential document, the Cardinal began by stressing the serious nature of receiving Communion and the need for each person to make �a conscious decision� regarding their worthiness based on �the Church�s objective criteria.�

But the Cardinal adds that it is not only the responsibility of the pro-abortion politicians such as Kerry to make a judgment about their worthiness to receive Communion.

It is also up to those distributing Communion to deny the sacrament to those in conflict with the Church's prohibition of abortion and the duty of office holders to oppose the procedure.

�Apart from an individual�s judgment about his worthiness to present himself to receive the Holy Eucharist, the minister of Holy Communion may find himself in the situation where he must refuse to distribute Holy Communion to someone, such as in cases of a declared excommunication, a declared interdict, or an obstinate persistence in manifest grave sin.�

If a politician such as Kerry �still presents himself to receive the Holy Eucharist, the minister of Holy Communion must refuse to distribute it, � Cardinal Ratzinger wrote.

He added that such as denial does not mean that the minister of Communion is judging the politician�s soul but is a reflection that he is in a state of obstinate persistence in manifest grave sin.

�Nor is the minister of Holy Communion passing judgment on the person�s subjective guilt, but rather is reacting to the person�s public unworthiness to receive Holy Communion due to an objective situation of sin.�

The document also address the issues of the death penalty and war, contrasting these issues and with abortion.

�Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia ... There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia,� Ratzinger wrote.

The memo was one of the subjects of an interim report by a task force of seven bishops established to address the Communion question.


The topic was also addressed by the American Bishops during their mid-June meeting in Dallas.

At that meeting the Bishops approved a document titled �Catholics in Political Life� which while it had harsh words for pro-abortion leaders, did not make specific recommendations on whether or not they should be denied Communion instead leaving the decision to individual Bishops.


Implicit in what the the Cardinal was saying, however, is that the bishops are required to state unambiguously that pro-abortion politicians must be denied Holy Communion, thus removing the decision from the bishops' discretion.

byzanTN,

"It seems many Catholics want to prove to the world that being Catholic means being no different from anyone else."

Thanks for this insight. I think there are many who are doing just that. It makes one ponder 'why'?? Maybe popularity is becoming the ultimate virtue with many Catholics, Kerry included. If that's not the ultimate virtue maybe compromising is. Say what they want to hear...get along..don't rock the boat. Make every situation Win - Win....

I understand Christianity to be counter cultural, but I also wonder if many American Catholics are really counter cultural at all or think they should be. Obviously, Jesus was not in tune with much of his culture. He was and is different. Truth is --We ARE different and Viva la difference! Not exactly Win - Win in the popular sense of the expression anyway, but ultimately a winning situation...Amen.

My nickel.

Blessings,


Mary Jo

Well, firstly, Kerry cannot be considered Catholic because of his refusal to accept the Church's teaching on murdering innocent children.

Secondly, yes. There are bishops who've spoken up against Kerry. Most notably would be Archbishop +Burke of St. Louis, who incidentally was one of the forty-four archbishops on whom the pallium was imposed about a week ago in Rome. Another notable is Bishop +Sheridan of Denver.

We should be furious with Kerry for masquerading as a Catholic in the first place.

Logos Teen

Teen,

Don't you think it's a bit premature for you to pontificate upon, or even "oversee", who is and who is not Catholic?

You may think the Kerry misses the mark in any number of ways; you may even be right about some of these thoughts. But it is simply wrong and grossly arrogant to say that he is not a Catholic.

I don't think that Teen was trying to "oversee" who is a Catholic. I applaud Teen's zeal for the Faith! Would that all Catholics felt so tenderly on the issue of abortion. Our failure to do so is a great scandal.