www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Are there any Byzantine folks at the Center or Left of Center?

Lawrence writes that "until one has seen a Gay Pride parade first hand, there comments will lack a certain amount of validity. I have viewed the Chicago one in person, watched filmed footage, photo stills". I lack both the time and the inclination to study such a phenomenon with such dedication. By this logic, I would be unable to comment on a whole host of things without experiencing them personally. That, however, is not an example of right reason; it's an example of wrong-headed thinking which advances nothing.

No doubt fifty years ago abortionists would have been arrested by the police. Most unfortunately, the Supreme Court took it on itself to decide (I've yet to figure out the legal reasoning that they must have applied) that abortion is somehow or other a "right". But our response to that is and must be to work tirelessly to overturn that murderous ruling, not to organize lynch mobs or snipers to shoot people dead.

It's not unlikely that in 1955 in many towns of the USA "gay pride" parades would have been driven off the streets while the police either took part in driving the marchers off the streets or at least looked the other way while the vigilantes did it. It is quite certain that fifty years ago this is precisely what happened to civil rights marchers in a number of places in the USA. Having been a civil rights marcher myself, I'm only too well aware of it. I'm also aware of the blacklist of people who were branded "Communists", often quite unjustly, in that period.

Would someone perhaps care to explain that what Hitler did to the Jews was a horrible crime, but what Hitler did to the homosexuals (in the same concentration camps) was somehow moral and upright behavior? That seems a logical consequence of the argument (with which, I hasten to add, I do not agree in the least).

The negative reaction to my comparing the outrageous treatment of Greek Catholics with the outrageous treatment of anyone else only demonstrates my point - either freedom of speech and expression means the freedom to speak out and express opinions and thoughts which I myself do not like, or I have no business claiming such freedom for opinions and thoughts which I do like.

Incognitus

Incognitus writes:

"either freedom of speech and expression means the freedom to speak out and express opinions and thoughts which I myself do not like, or I have no business claiming such freedom for opinions and thoughts which I do like."

Amen! Well put.

Dear John,

Incognitus is great whether he's serious or not!

Alex

My serious thanks both to John and to Alex. Now about that vodka . . .

Incognitus

Incognitus is no doubt great but he still doesn't know what he's writing about.

Dan L

Dear Professor Dan,

I too sometimes have a strong disagreement with Incognitus.

But Incognitus always is the articulate, educated defender of a well thought-out position based on a very well-reasoned perspective.

He always knows what he's talking about.

That doesn't mean we can't disagree with him.

And when we do, we disagree with a more than worthy opponent (speaking for myself, he can wipe the floor with me and I'm grateful to him that he hasn't yet . . . )

Alex

O you old "butter upperer". You've produced enough honey to flood the bee hive.

Dan L

These nonsense arguments are mainstream homosexual agenda propaganda. You've been brainwashed into accepting, non-critically, their propaganda points.

Sodomy is not a civil right. Gay pride marches are not morally equivalent to civil right/minority right marches.

Hitler didn't single out gays. Most of his upper ranks were filled with gays.
THE HOMOSEXUAL ROOTS OF THE NAZI PARTY [abidingtruth.com]

What is the difference between a sodomy-rights march and a pedophilia- or incest-rights march?

Dear and Esteemed Professor Dan!

Wherever do you get such ideas?

My father was a beekeeper and I'm named for St Alexius the Man of God, a patron of the honey-bees in Ukraine . . .

Oddly enough, I have diabetes . . .

Alex

I fail to see how defending the right to free speech and lawful assembly can be construed as support of a homosexual cause. If we do not defend the right to free speech and lawful assembly, those who rights are taken away may very well be those of the Church. If "Gay Pride" parades descend to the depths of lewd acts in public there are enforceable laws against such acts (as others have already noted).

Since the Fall in the Garden, humans still turn away from God and embrace sin. For those of us who have experienced the new birth in Christ and are appalled at such parades, perhaps we should be meeting those who embrace sin and we should be sharing that experience of the new life in Christ with them. This is true evangelization, (and it does not take a meeting or conference to figure that out.)

As we see in the Gospel of St. John the Theologian, Jesus acted against the mob who wanted to stone the woman caught in adultery (John 8:2-11). Interestingly, Jesus does not offer the woman forgiveness, nor does the woman ask, but he does say, "Neither do I condemn you. Go, and from now on do not sin any more."

Hurling eggs or epithets might as well be hurling stones. Thank God, each time I confess my sins the priest does not hurl eggs or epithets at me.

Dear Friends,

I think CJ is imputing motives to people here that simply don't exist.

What is MOST surprising is someone from the USA saying this - I thought you people down there coined the phrase, "I'll disagree with what you say, but I'll fight like heck for your right to say it!"

As for demonstrations involving pedophiles, there are such already. There was even a Catholic priest at one point who promoted pedophilism.

The point being?

Alex

Hi Everyone,
I agree with Iconophile. I am rather Liberal when it comes to politics in my middle age. I admire the European model. However, I am rather Conservative in religious matters, especially in worship style.
An English Catholic priest did a study once as to why young English Catholics fell away from the church. This was written up in 'God of Surprises'. What he found was that there was so much confusion about the image of God. Children were taught that God was a loving father; yet if they didn't show up every week to visit him, he would toss them in the dungeon. Is God a loving father, or a mean, old great uncle? If I find the book, I will post his entire findings.
In my own humble opinion, Liberals recognize their sinfulness and trust that God will forgive their sins, as they forgive others. Without a doubt, this is the model offered repeatedly by Jesus. Jesus had lots of trouble with the religious Conservatives of his time.

Father Deacon,

I did not know that those prancing around naked, licking each other, throwing things at Churches, cursing priests and the like were at confession. Like I said I don't throw eggs or epithets, but I don't agree that gay pride parades are an expression of free speech either. Now about confession are you suggsting that I should go to see Father without my clothes on and hurl invectives at him in the process? I never learned that in Catechism.

Dan L

Dear Dan,

Remind me to leave you alone when you are filled with righteous anger!

Alex

Alex,

I pray that it is righteous. Actually I'm trying on my new sweetness and light approach. I guess it's not working very well. :rolleyes:
Maybe I'd better just not post here for a while.

Dan L