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Mar 25th, 2025
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Most of these choices have been discussed elsewhere. There have been some polling on these issues. Here is a chance to rank the importance you attach to these issues.
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I was unable to edit the beginning post. This is just a tool to see what importance we place on different liturgical issues--including some liturgical practices. I encourage all to vote but results can be viewed without voting.
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The voting on questions 4 & 5 (discretion vs. mandated on taking the Anaphora out loud) is very interesting. Perhaps a future poll should take into account other options. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Nec
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That's a pretty darn good poll.
I was surprised to see that some Ruthenian parishes may still be using "pre-cuts". I had no idea.
I also like the idea of more than one jurisdiction involved in the translation. I would think it would be ideal if ACROD, Ukrainian Catholic, Ukrainian Orthodox and Byzantine Ruthenian Catholic churches should just huddle and agree on a translation. The OCA might not be interested but they should be invited. This is serious business, time consuming and expensive and everyone will benefit by producing a Byzantine-Slav standard for American English liturgies. Then they could huddle on a Spanish translation.
Good questions!
+T+
Michael
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Thanks!
AFAIK, very few Ruthenian parishes use the traditional prosphora loaves but use the precut pieces for proskomide. Perhaps others may have differing information?
Nec
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Originally posted by Coalesco:
Then they could huddle on a Spanish translation. Michael, A Spanish translation? For use where? Are not the translations used by the OCA, Greeks and Antiochians in Spanish-speaking countries good enough? For Catholics, what about the one produced in Rome? Tony
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Originally posted by Nec Aliter:
Thanks!
AFAIK, very few Ruthenian parishes use the traditional prosphora loaves but use the precut pieces for proskomide. Perhaps others may have differing information?
Nec Sorry, I didn't know. I think that is a bigger issue than the translation actually. +T+ Michael
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Originally posted by Tony: Originally posted by Coalesco:
[b]Then they could huddle on a Spanish translation.
A Spanish translation? For use where? Are not the translations used by the OCA, Greeks and Antiochians in Spanish-speaking countries good enough?
For Catholics, what about the one produced in Rome?
Tony [/b]They still must all be approved for use by the jurisdiction. If there are good translations already available and up-to-date linguistically, fine. I don't believe that the BC should write a new Spanish translation for no reason whatever, take a good one down from the shelf, dust it off and offer it. I think that an ideal would be that all of the jurisdictions used a common (or nearly so) translation of English and another common (or nearly so) translation of Spanish. Oh, and I think that while we may not need Spanish much now we should also endeavor to create the need. The Spanish language North Americans are being attracted to Evangelical and Pentecostal Protestantism in significant enough numbers to be a major crises. Eastern churches, Orthodox and Catholic both, should be prepared to approach and serve these communities. +T+ Michael
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I think that is a bigger issue than the translation actually.
I'm not sure how to rank it. I'd say it's pretty serious and I was surprised to see so many say they were opposed to precut pieces in the proskomide.
My personal opinion is that the ones we have to convince are the clergy. Changing over to the traditional prosphora would be a MAJOR change for them.
Nec
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I've heard some excuses for the pre-cut stuff - the excuses are, quite literally, incredible.
Sample, from a Mother Superior of a convent which bakes the bread for the Eucharist and then cuts it into particles: "we don't have time to bake separate loaves of prosphora". Can anyone really believe that it would take more time to bake the separate loaves than it takes the nuns to cut up all those particles with geometric precision?
Sample (from a number of priests on different occasions): "there's not enough time to do the Prothesis according to the book - what happens when someone wants to come to Confession right before the Liturgy?" Well, Father, if you regularly expect some penitents right before the Divine Liturgy and wish to encourage them to keep coming at that inappropriate time, so do the Prothesis twenty minutes earler. But it would be still better to invite the penitents to come earlier, hear their Confessions, and ask them (in lieu of a penance?) please to read the Hours aloud while you do the Prothesis normally.
There's more, but that will do for now.
Incognitus
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I didn't know that some of the precut pieces were prepared by nuns. Could you elaborate on that? Do most parishes that have the precut pieces get them from convents? Do the nuns use the seal when they bake the bread?
Nec
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Dear Nec Aliter:
CHRIST IS RISEN! You write: "I didn't know that some of the precut pieces were prepared by nuns. Could you elaborate on that? Do most parishes that have the precut pieces get them from convents? Do the nuns use the seal when they bake the bread?"
I don't honestly know whether parishes with the pre-cut particles mostly get them from the nuns or make their own. It is certainly possible to order them from two or three communities of nuns. I can't say for certain whether the nuns use the seal when they bake the bread, but I strenuously doubt it.
When the nuns make these things the nuns use a hard riddle, with the result that the bread is hard as soon as it cools. How the nuns cut it, I have no idea, but anyway the pieces usually are geometrically admirable and the one or two priests I know who use them tell me that this sort of bread does not crumble.
The whole thing is ridiculous. It is perfectly possible to serve with normal prosphora, and the people I know who bake normal prosphora produce lovely small loaves, with seals where they belong. My only negative experience with prosphora is in Greece, where people unfortunately tend to get it from the bakery instead of making it themselves - heaven only knows what goes into the dough used in the bakery and while the resulting bread is quite edible it isn't what I would consider suitable for the Eucharist.
Incognitus
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Well, I know our priest doesn't use precut. He bought Cutco knives from my son and has frequently cut his finger on the sharp edges. His frequently bandaged fingers inspire our further martyrdom.
Dan L
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Good to hear your parish uses the traditional prosphora, Dan.
Perhaps as part of our liturgical renewal we should purchase prosphora seals for our parishes?
Nec
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I suggest everyone here get together and make a fund to buy prosphora seals in a bulk quantity from Europe, and then just ship them out to every parish in the directory, together with the recipe and a sack of flower  . Oh, that may require them to find their gold lances!... Dan, better place a big order for those cutco knives too! 
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