www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News HORIZONS and Pax Christi

In another addition to cut-and-paste journalism, HORIZONS, the eparchial newspaper of Parma, published a CNN article about Pax Christi titled "Pax Christi asks U.S. to 'turn back' from using its own 'terror'"

Our war with Afghanistan is considered a form of terrorism. The destruction of civil power plants is considered disrupting. Yet, Pax Christi doesn't mention how the brutal murder of 50,000 Afghans by their own people is not considered 'disrupting.'

Pax Christi worries over the "immediate and deadly effect" that destruction of such civil power facilities would have. Did Pax Christi consider the destruction of innocent civilians in New York City not an immediate and deadly effect? In New York, real terrorists killed many people. In Afghanistan, the U.S. is going after military targets and facilities that might aid the Taliban in their continued plight of the poor Afghan people.

Pax Christi's saint, the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. is quoted in the discussion about violence, hatred, and murder. Yet, Pax Christi never mentions the Catholic Church's criteria of a justifiable war, unlike the other CNS article cut-and-pasted on page 8. What Pax Christi is trying to say and what the Catholic bishops are saying seem to be two different things. Why give attention to Pax Christi, a Catholic organization, when Catholic bishops are voicing a different opinion?


Define "Retaliatory strikes by the U.S.":

Pax Christi = terrorism.

Cardinal Francis of Chicago = a just war.
Cardinal Theodore of Washington = a necessary response.
Cardinal Bernard of Boston = understandable.
Cardinal Anthony of Philadelphia = a right and a duty.
Cardinal Adam of Detroit = a military necessity; provoked by acts of mass terrorism.
Cardinal Edward of New York = a prayer for a speedy victory.
Cardinal William of Baltimore = hope for no suffering.

If all the U.S. Cardinals are so unanimous in THEIR definition of the U.S. retaliator strikes, then why is HORIZONS giving ear to those who disagree with them? HORIZONS leaves me confused over who I should align myself with. If the purpose of HORIZONS is to educate, then quoting our church leaders is important, but to quote Pax Christi in oppositin to them "sows confusion" and "doubt" about the words of the bishops.


Pope John Paul II is quoted in regards to the issue of "the ways of violence" but Pax Christi never addresses whether the U.S. is acting as a first-aggressor targetting primarily civilian targets as did the real terrorists on Sept 11.

Pax Christ asks us to resist in demonizing or dehumanizing any ethnic group as "enemy." But has any official government official called on the American people to do so? I have seen great restraint asked by our officials. Does the unanimous agreement by the Arab nations to condemn Afghanistan constitute a dehumanization of a people?

HORIZONS published this article under a heading of "Issues of Justice". Question: How can one supply a greater percentage of food and support to a people whose culture and way of life had been destroyed by non-Americans? Will the Taliban listen to Pax Christi's request or was the statement only aimed at the evil West? Will we witness brave journalists march over to Afghanistan to make statements about how we should all get along? At least we didn't have to read another article quoting the Catholic expert, Hans Kung.

[ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: Edwin ]

Edwin, here Pax Christi has a point. Read lewrockwell.com, linked to my site, for more.

http://oldworldrus.com

Edwin,

I agree with you on this. While I would not have supported a war like the Vietnam War, the way the US is handling itself in Afghanistan is a wonderful example of restraint, attempting to minimize death and destruction, while still routing out terrorists and the evil Taliban government.

While I disagree with jingoism and "ra ra let's get those muslims" sentiments, and while initially I was quite worried about the war in Afghanistan (and I still object to the title "war on terrorism" as it is ill-defined), I must say that I am quite pleasantly surprised by the way the US is trying to go about all this.

The US has every right to defend itself, route out terrorists, and overturn governments that support evil acts and are oppressive. Our country stands for freedom (despite sometimes shocking examples to the contrary) and we should do everything in our power to pursue this when we have the chance to help other people.

If the US were actively boming civilians like in WWII or doing an embargo against civilians like the deplorable Iraqi embargo, I'd be against the intervention in Afghanistan. But so far, it is being run efficiently, carefully, and with respect to the Afghan people. This is one time when I will say "they wouldn't be so kind to us" and "given the fact that we could utterly destory them with our might, I am pretty happy we are being carefull here."

I am as against ra ra jingoism as I am against blanket condemnations of all military action. We need thoughtfull evaluations of each circumstance before we make big decisions. That's why the article in Horizons annoys me; it is not well-balanced.

anastasios

Serge, I agree wholeheartedly; thank you for mentioning lewrockwell. I also strongly recommend the libertarian www.antiwar.com [antiwar.com] and Joe Sobran's sobering columns.

In IC XC
Samer

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/woods5.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/woods6.html

These two come from the Latin traditionalist camp, columnist Thomas Woods. Contrary to one's expectations, he's not screaming "Crusade!"; strangely enough, he's citing "just war" doctrine to oppose the war.

In IC XC
Samer

[ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: SamB ]

Samer,

I am really suprised that "Horizons" published this article by Pax Christi. It seems that the so-called 'peace and justice' garbage [only for the liberals] has infiltrated the Parma Eparchy's newspaper {as it has many Roman Catholic diocesan newspapers}.

I find it really odd and strange that, before September 11th, Usama Bin Laden did not care about the plight of the Palestinians. Now, bin Laden is suddenly concerned about the plight of the Palestinians. I find it odd that Woods mentioned that in his column.

As to Pax Christi, they need to try their 'hug a Taliban' on the Talibans. After these people stop laughing, they will put a bullet through their skulls, after a show trial.

These Pax Christi people are taking 'Peace of Christ' and subverting it to fit their own ultra-liberal agenda. These Pax Christi people merely want to live in the United States of America and reap all the benefits but want nothing to do to defend the U.S.A. or when we do defend themselves, they complain about the military. Idiots!

Michael,

Hitting the officials in the U.S. is an easier target for Pax Christi than standing up to the Taliban.

I am constantly befuddled by the cut-and-paste journalism HORIZONS practices. This publication is more interested in what is going on in the liberal shanks of the Roman Church than its own. I was befuddled oncefore when it published an analysis of the church by Hans Kung, as if this defunct Roman Catholic theologian speaks on our behalf.

Do you think Pax Christi will begin selling Tickle-Me-Taliban dolls or stickers saying "Have you hugged a Taliban today?"

[ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: Edwin ]

Unfortunately, Horizons is also the paper that routinely publishes parish event pictures & stories many months after they happened, usually (at least with our parish's events) mislabeling the people in the pictures - if they ever see the light of day at all. Horizons also refuses to print the annual Uniontown Pilgrimage schedule, saying that there "isn't room." Oh - I guess stuff taken straight off the CNS newswire (in which some articles occasionally refere to "Uniates") takes precedence. The Diocesan rag for the RC's here in Columbus is about a thousand times better, I'm sorry to say. I don't subscribe to it, but I have friends who do, and it's lovely to see a paper which actually reports in a timely manner & serves the needs of the faithful!

Grumpily,

Sharon

Sharon Mech, SFO
Cantor & sinner
sharon@cmhc.com

It seems that the so-called 'peace and justice' garbage [only for the liberals] has infiltrated the Parma Eparchy's newspaper {as it has many Roman Catholic diocesan newspapers}.

Samer, you're welcome and thanks for making me aware specifically of Thomas Woods.

I completely understand some forum members' antipathy to the "peace and justice' faction among the RCs. I remember too often, 15 years ago, such being a particularly obnoxious part of dissenterism, AmChurch — people who remembered or wanted to experience the late '60s... rebels looking for a cause. ("Hey, maaaaan... &#8217 Ironically, I've found actual aging hippies and old secular activists to somewhat more charming than these miserable old quislings.

Having said that, an interest in peace and justice is not the copyrighted property of such types. Check out Dorothy Day or Catherine de Hueck Doherty's lives. (And Archbishop Oscar Romero, who despite the exploitation of his image by the dissenter camp was 100% sound. He was the Thomas � Becket of El Salvador) Entirely Catholic and committed to true peace and justice. Day may have economically and politically na�ve but was not a Modernist; Russian-born Doherty, before founding a quasi-monastic group in her adopted Canada, was dedicated to the unpopular cause of bettering black-white relations in Depression-era North America. However, their activism was based on Catholic principles and not the close counterfeit of them, liberalism, bought into by the '70s and '80s P&Jers among the RCs (you know, the ones who were into the now-forgotten "liberation theology' and backed the now-defeated Communists in Nicaragua, which they often pronounced with a Spanish accent: "�Nee-cah-RRRAH-gwah!&#8217 . BTW, ISTM this group of would-be Bol'ševiki, like most of AmChurch, is getting old and starting to die, and it isn't attracting the young: why be a dissenter Catholic when you can be an out-and-out secular? Or a sound, real Catholic. Those last two seem to be the options today's young choose.

Don't let the dissenters steal the righteous mantle and image of "peace and justice' (charity).

Plus, a Catholic mind is critically open (discerning): it accepts the truth, in or out of season. Coincidentally I happen to agree with the P&Jers on a point or two, and that's fine. (A stopped clock is right twice a day.) Certainly for those in the Church, "conservative' =/= warmonger.

http://oldworldrus.com

I appreciate Dustin's thoughtful response here. And I must say I respectfully disagree with some of the views of Pax Christi, though other points they make are helpful observations.

However, Pax Christi is an episcopally approved organization while Lew Rockwell, also mentioned here is episcopally censured.

More to the point, what ever limitations they have, Pax Christi is far more orthodox than someone who would call the Church's call for justice and peace "garabge".

Anyway, I'm glad to hear we "liberals" are in control of the the offical organ of the Parma Eparchy.

K.

Sharon,

I guess I am not the only one halluskinating!

I am saddened at the shoddy nature of HORIZONS. What can serve as a tool for evangelization and info-sharing is used for reporting the goings-ons in other sui juris churches, primarily the Roman Catholic Church.

No one ever quotes the paper since it sais little or nothing having any bearing on the Byzantine Catholics - err, Uniates. The kiddy section is demeaning, if not pathetic, a mere throw-at-the-wall-and-hope-it-sticks-since-we-really-have-nothing-from-a-Byzantine-perspective-to-offer.

Is HORIZONS evangelically bankrupt?

I wish I kept the article about Hans Kung. It amazes me that the problems about the church has to be addressed by a defunct Catholic theologian. I am tired of their graphs and statistical charts showing what "Catholics" think about certain issues. Such liberal minds believe that dogma and ethics is determined by popular vote. If this is not what HORIZONS is trying to suggest, then why bother with meaningless stats?

[ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: Edwin ]

This war is not a crusade nor really a jihad. If the terrorists had ploughed a jetliner into the Vatican and/or assasinated the Pope, for example, then it would have been. The other side is angry at the secular West for, among other things, meddling in Palestine. And while their means were criminal, their grievances can't be dismissed out of hand ("they hate freedom!' and similar rubbish).

Note that the hawks pick on dirt-poor Afghanistan and not oil-rich Saudi Arabia, even though most of the hijackers were Saudi subjects.

http://oldworldrus.com

Serge,

Yes, the Israel-Palestine question is a real issue. My original topic was Pax Christi's labeling our country as being akin to terrorists. If that is the case, we should be bombing ourselves.

The Taliban's grievances against the West is a scapegoat. The people over there can't stand each other, West or no West. 50,000 were killed over there BEFORE the West launched its first missile or dropped its first bomb. Why doesn't Pax Christi adddress these pre-war abominations? Their concern and frenzy is all too one-sided.

The real questiono for us is: Why HORIZONS will give Pax Christi full coverage but not the Uniontown Pilgrimage schedule?

[ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: Edwin ]

Because Uniontown is the preserve of those anti-progressives who refuse to only speak English in church and didn't learn to be Byzantine out of a book? Because Uniontown isn't relevant to a modern American Catholic? Because Uniontown represents everything that we should have left behind by now?

RichC,

Is this your personal opinion or your make on HORIZONS?

I would hate to think that the folks at HORIZONS would consider the Uniontown pilgrimage outdated, if not irrelevant. Sharon made the point that the pilgrimage schedule was not considered. Yet, this cut-and-paste newspaper DOES make space for such articles about Pax Christi (and I would include the analysis of Hans Kung).

It might be that all news organizations and publishers are having too much competition and must make their media exciting, controversial, and crisis-oriented. Obviously, the Byzantine Catholic Church is too boring and does not lend itself to titilating stories. So these news groups must go elsewhere to get their titilating news-clips.

We hear about the priest-shortage crisis, but nothing ever seems to make it in HORIZONS about those who ARE serving their church. Would one ever know there is a deacon program in Parma by reading HORIZONS? What do you know about the cantors leading the congregations in singing and the issues they face in their ministry? How much did you learn about what it means to be a catechist in the Byzantine Church's evangelical and catechetical mission? Any article about the issues homeschoolers are facing while trying to raise their children as Eastern Catholics? What ever happened to the "Tell me why?" column. A lot of good material was found in these articles once upon a time. Does anyone ever write an Letter to the Editor and have it published like before?

I would suggest a more positive move regarding poor journalism: get people involved in the newpaper who DO have an interest in the Byzantine Catholic Church and WILL write articles pertaining to this sui juris church and not just cut-and-paste. This church is missing a "golden opportunity" in not fully utilizing a great channel of communication.

I think many out there surfing the i-net know what I mean. They come here because the issues that DO mean beans to them as Eastern Christians aren't getting addressed in the vital organs of communication within their own communities. It was wonderful learning in "real time" about events that DO matter.

I ask you all to simply skim over the topics on each forum that popped up over the past year. Compare the topics and issues with what you find in HORIZONS. You will see, I believe, a gulf between what you want to know and learn and what is spoon-fed to ya. There was a wonderful chart on the second page giving definitions to Islamic terms (per CNS). This is nice, but what about giving definitions of Eastern theological terms, like 'theosis' for instance? On page three, HORIZONS gives us another article titled "A Basic Guide to Elements of Islam", another CNS article. A wonderful presentation is made about the the history of Islam and its beliefs, yet nothing written about how Christianity, especially Eastern Christianit suffered under this religion. NADA! Of course, I would not expect CNS to open closets full of skeletons or cans full of worms, but neither does HORIZONS. An open arm willingness to allow a church newspaper to teach people about Islam confuses me to no end. Since we Eastern Christians don't get as much attention as do other religions and sui juris churches, maybe we should consider checking them out instead?

Three cheers to Byzcath.org for allowing a real-time channel to the news and events that DO matter to Byzantine Catholics and others who dialogue here!

[ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: Edwin ]