The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
fslobodzian, ArchibaldHeidenr, Fernholz, EasternLight, AthosEnjoyer
6,167 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
1 members (San Nicolas), 375 guests, and 101 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
by orthodoxsinner2, September 30
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,514
Posts417,578
Members6,167
Most Online4,112
Mar 25th, 2025
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#197031 11/05/01 04:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 59
D
Member
Member
D Offline
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 59
I have a friend who holds to a sophisticated bersion of Sola Scriptura. We've been trying to find some common ground. He has requested that I show him evidence from Patristic sources showing that the Fathers (esp. early) used any source of apostolic teaching other than Scriptures. I found something in Ireneaus, but I was wondering if anyone could give me any more ideas. Anyone?

Thanks,

DL

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
Dear David,

I will invoke your website patron, St David Lewis for you!

With respect to "Sola Scriptura," there is an excellent article written by a former Protestant pastor, now an Orthodox Priest of the Jordanville jurisdiction, totally taking sola scriptura apart.

This article has been translated into several languages.

The article is on this site and Fr. John Whiteford would be more than happy to assist you further:

http://pages.prodigy.net//frjohnwhiteford/services.htm

As for Sola Scriptura itself, let's not go as far as the Fathers.

Let's begin with Scripture itself shall we?

Remember the story of Nathaniel under the sycamore tree in John?

I always wondered what was meant when Christ told him that He saw him under the sycamore tree, since that was the first and only reference to it in the New Testament.

In fact, the story of how Nathaniel got to be under the sycamore tree is told in an apocryphal Gospel where Nathaniel, as a child, was dying of a sickness and the Mother of Jesus told his mother to place Nathaniel on Jesus' bedclothes, yes, under a sycamore tree where Nathaniel was totally healed.

That is one non-scriptural source that is assumed by Christ Himself!

Also, what about the Seat of Moses that is mentioned in the New Testment?

Where in the entire Bible is that ever mentioned?

Nowhere, in fact. It was a part of the oral tradition of Judaism, not written in the Hebrew Scriptures, that Christ and the Apostles accept as legitimate and matter of fact.

There are other such references e.g. the story of the struggle for Moses' body, again this is part of oral Jewish tradition accepted as legitimate revealed truth by St Paul.

But Fr. John Whiteford does an excellent job of dealing with Scripture Alone.

A nun who converted (from Protestantism) to the Eastern Catholic church (and is now an Anchorite, our parish's first - any other volunteers?) once
told me that Protestants knew what the Scriptures said. But we, she said with a devastating smile, know what they MEAN.

Alex

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,075
A
Member
Member
A Offline
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,075
Dear David,

I would start with a great work called "Not by Scripture Alone" by Robert Sungenis, an ex-Prot. minister.

A follow up with "Tradition and Traditions" by Yves Congar, which is VERY hard to read but well worth it, might be in order.

Then I would fill in the "Eastern gap" by reading any of the fine Eastern books on Tradition, such as those suggested at http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/readlist.htm

Beware of that site in general, though, as the editor is a rabidly anti-Catholic Orthodox.

Good luck!

In Christ,

anastasios

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 238
E
Member
Member
E Offline
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 238
David,

How does Sola Scriptura answer the question as to what constitutes NT scripture? When Paul mentions the 'scriptures' is he referring to the Gospels, which didn't exist until decades later? The NT mentions the existence of the Church, yet the Church existed from Pentecost for several decades before Paul wrote his letters and even more so before the Evangelists wrote their Gospels. Did the Church exist before the NT? Was it possible? If so, then what does this have to say about the Bible Alone?

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 271
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 271
David,

All 12 of the original first 12 Apostles preached the Gospel, the Word of God, to the ends of the Earth. (Remember it was still flat then) But guess what? Only 3 of them ever wrote anything down! Does that mean the other 9 didn't teach the Gospel of Christ?

Bottom line is that not all of God's Word was written down. The Gospel of Christ has been spread orally more than any number of books could do.

When was the printing press invented? 15th. century? How many people knew how to read and write back then?

Joe Prokopchak
archsinner


Moderated by  Irish Melkite, theophan 

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2024 (Forum 1998-2024). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0