www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Anglican Rite Awaits Rome's Approval

All,

I just came across this news article relating to the on-going discussion about the creation of an Anglican Church in full communion with Rome.

Roman Catholic Perspective on Anglican Discussions [themessenger.com.au]

Let us pray that unity is achieved.

ProCatholico

What a marvellous thing that would be!

I wonder if the hold up may be discussions around mandatory celibacy. It would be a shame if such a minor disciplinary issue should prevent Rome from establishing communion.

Gordo

I suspect it is more than that - a number of Anglicans are already Latin-rite priests who are married (and most of those cases were handled by then-Cardinal Ratzinger). An Anglican Usage already exists and is in use in several parishes. St. Thomas More in Scranton and Our Lady of Walsingham in Houston (I highly recommend if you are in the Galveston-Houston area). Rite One can be found at http://www.walsingham-church.org/mass.htm
FDD

I agree, Diak. But it would be an issue if they wanted a distinct rite with the right to ordain married men who are not already existing clergy in their communion. My sense is that Rome would not accept that as a condition for full communion.

But I'm sure that there are many issues on the table.

Gordo

You wouldn't believe how craxy the opposition gets. The late Cardinal Hume said that it was unthinkable to have a parallel Catholic jurisdiction in England. When the Ukrainian Exarchate was called to his attention, he mumbled something. A highly placed English priest working the Roman Curia said to me that it was impossible to accept Anglican Use parishes because, after all, they had things like Evensong!

Fr. Serge

From the article: "This means possibly extending the kind of Anglican Rite that already exists in the United States, whereby Anglicans can keep their liturgy yet enjoy communion with Rome. However, such a provision is fraught with complexities and is opposed by many of the world's Catholic bishops."

Why? It isn't a form of Uniatism if the group finds communion WITHIN its own patriarchal church, is it? Or are the Catholic bishops fearing that it might justify other break-away rites (i.e., Latin Traditionalist?, Hispanic Rite, Celtic Rite, etc)?

Comments, please.

Joe

Unless it is in the Middle East or Eastern Europe. :rolleyes:

You mean like the Anglican Bishop in Jerusalem?

Fr. Serge

Methinks the Latin Bishops want things, so to speak, "my way or the highway".

At present, there is nothing stopping disenchanted Anglicans from joining the Latin Church (or Byzantine Church).

Here's a Machiavellian thought: maybe the Anglicans who wish to become Catholics and retain a common identity should join one of the Eastern Catholic Churches which has a smaller number of people but nevertheless also has a patriarchal structure or the equivalent. The former Anglicans (who would then have become Molvanian Catholics or something) could then create for themselves the Sarum-Molvanian Recension! Wouldn't that be fun?

Fr. Serge

The American RC bishops do not want some high church, high culture society or rite in their midst. I would not be banking on the success of the Anglican Use in this country.

Andrew

What?! And enforce an identity crisis on them too?

Andrew,

As they say at Catholic parishes, "BINGO!"

I see another uniate novelty with permission slips and strings attached as well as another dicastery with pen-wielding absentee bishops.

You've described what's really happening. The Pope is making them offer the Anglican Use and they're doing so even more stingily and begrudgingly than they do the traditional Latin Mass for many of the same reasons, which you named. Add to that parochialism, reverse snobbery and Irish-American contempt of things perceived as English, as explained in Thomas Day's books and articles and as amazingly echoed in that English priest's stupid remark quoted by Fr Serge ('Evensong ain't Cat'lic'), and you've got it. There is no mechanism to keep the Anglican Use going once the original ex-Episcopal priests retire or die. No new priests are trained to do it and there is no seminary dedicated to it. The people then are mainstreamed into the Novus Ordo. It happened in Nevada.

What a shame. It is a nice service, better than the NO, containing in its Rite I version the heritage of Christianity in English. (It also knocks the wind out of the other side's claim that traditionalism is about 'going back to Latin'.) It only needs to have the ICEL-isms removed; for example Cranmer's original 'for you and for many', as in the Latin and in the Byzantine Rite, restored. I wouldn't mind if it became the default for English-speaking Western Catholics but as Andrew and Thomas Day explain, it won't.

As for the Traditional Anglican Communion (not the official Anglican Communion; this is an independent traditionalist group based in Australia) joining Rome, it still seems mostly like wishful thinking from the TAC like unrequited love. As an Episcopal friend described it, an ecclesiastical soap opera.

Having never been to an Anglican church myself, would anyone care to explain/post what their liturgy looks/is like?

It would be interesting to see how their liturgy parallels the various Catholic rites.

Thanks.