www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall A suggestion for moderators, when closing threads...

Perhaps, rather than just closing threads as many have been, a final post giving a simple explanation as to why a thread is being closed would be helpful. There have been an increasing number of threads closed without any indication as to reason. As a result, I tend to post less, and stop by here much less, since it seems that threads don't stay open long enough to comment lately. :rolleyes:

My sincere respectful, one cent opinion,

Steve

Hi Steve,

Though I think that I have only closed one thread in my moderating lifetime, I do thank you for the suggestion.

The one thread I closed was first given a warning NOT to go in an uncharitable direction yet some posters chose to take it that route despite the warning. It became uncharitable in tone, I received pms (aka:complaints) about it, and not having the time to explain further, I just closed it down.

What some do not understand is that often time something will really offend alot of posters, who then send either moderator alerts (the whistle at the bottom of posts) and/or p.m.'s. At that point, we do have to explore the grievance...we often consult with or are consulted by our co-moderators, and if it is agreed that the grievance/grievances have merit, action is taken. Sometimes that action is closing a thread.

In any case, thanks for the constructive input and please don't stop posting dear brother in Christ!

Alice

I agree with Steve. Many are being needlessly shut down or deleted, and it is making posting here unpleasent at times.

For example, today I started a thread in the Kliros asking why so many were locked and deleted in the Kliros, and then that thread was locked. It was totally pertinent to the Kliros part of this Forum, because it involved it!

But why was it locked? Nothing negative was said. Why was the thread that Ja Rusin Byl started asking for cantoring advice deleted? Everyone was welcoming and supportive of him. It was completely pertinant to cantoring, liturgical singing, and the idea of a Kliros.

It just shows the typical view of young people in many of our Eastern parishes. Oh they are young, they don't know any they, he's just a "smarkach."

That is why so many of you wonder why your parishes are virtually empty and dying.

Look at the ByzanTEEN forum. Hardly anything going on there.

And when a young person does post here, he or is typically dismissed or just plain ignored.

I just don't understand any of the reasons for shutting a lot of them down.

And it seems when one gets out of control, it remains open, such as that vile "Cartoon" thread that was in the Town Hall. And while I am on it, some offending posters are not dealt with.

I understand it is difficult for the moderators to be able to check all the threads becuase after all, they can't live on these forums, but something should be done about reckless posters and threads. Leave the good, informing,a nd non-offensive ones alone.

Watch this post get deleted or this thread locked and deleted. :rolleyes:

- uc

Steve and UC,

I did a quick check of the forums I moderate along with Alice, and in some cases others. Going back six months in most cases very few threads have been closed. In most cases the threads have been closed off in the fashion as stated above.

As for deleting posts, in most cases it has been for reasons that the post has been reported for violations of the rules of the forum. Some are so outright uncharitable, offensive and out of line, that they are simply deleted, and the poster warned. To keep the post in would be counter-productive to some of our rules.

I have to remind you each moderator has a style in which they manange the forums they are responsible for. Some can be a little more lenient than other moderators. It depends on the topic and the Forum. What you may perceive as not offensive or in line to your thoughts may be causing offense to others, and that must be balanced in the spirit of Chrisitan charity. All I have to do is remind you to visit some other forums that have loser rules, and you find that in most cases only a relative few post, and that is because of the sharp and uncharitable dememanor of the few. We encourage as many as possible to post, but in the spirit as a Christian in civil discussion.

As to the ByzanTeens Forum, our underage posters are being encouraged to utilize that forum more. I would further suggest that if you have a problem with a particular moderator's style, you take it up with them personally via PM.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Fr. Anthony, bless!

My above post had nothing to do with Alice or you. In fact, as I have communicated with Alice via PM's discussing various things, she is one the kindest and most genuine people to post on this Forum. I have never had any qualms regarding any of her decisions as a Moderator, or with yours, Fr. Anthony.

My post had mainly to do with the Kliros. I posted my feelings here in the Town Hall because the thread I started in the Kliros was locked like others in the Kliros.

I have in the past sent PM's to various Moderators and usually they are not responded or even acknowledge, save the Admin. When I have sent messages to Moderators by clicking on "Report Post," nothing was ever done.

As I posted earlier, I understand it is hard for the Moderators to keep tabs on everything that goes on here, and yes, I know they need to have lives outside of the Byzcath.org Forum, but I do feel more action should be taken in regards to reckless posters and threads.

My beliefs and statements regarding the role and treatment of youth in the Eastern (Catholic) Churches remains, along with my statement regarding the ByzanTEEN section of the forum.

I am glad, Rev. Father, that there is encouragement of underage and younger posters to be active there, however, I feel that the ByzanTEEN section is a pretty accurate reflection regarding the amount and participation of youth in the Eastern (Catholic) Churches. You get the few dedicated and truly God-fearing ones which is truly a blessing that such youths exist in our Churches, but the rest..... well I think everyone gets the picture.

Again, my above post was in no way directed at you or towards Alice. It was merely my current feelings I have had for the past few months.

My apologies if I offended you or Alice.

-uc

Dear UC,

Thanks for the clarification and no offense taken. I believe it is our job as a Forum community to make our our underage posters and there are at least a dozen that I know of to be more active in the ByzanTeen Forum. Then we probably can get a more vibrant draw of others.

A suggestion to the moderators in general, and I do this on a regular basis, if a thread does not fit into a particular forum in which it was originated, tranfer it to the one it should be assigned to.

I hope this is satisfactory to all.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Dear Friends,

With respect to threads, it is often "touch and go."

For example, I would dearly have loved to close down the thread on Pope John Paul the Great and permanently expel both Ray S. and Mexican!

But such was not to be - nor should it.

There are also posters who will write the Administrator/Moderators to complain about a poster because they just don't like the writing style etc. and translate "personal disagreement" into "offense against the forum."

These should be told to get a life . . . and I'm sure they are.

The only people who should be reprimanded are those who refuse to abide by the rules of civil discourse - and who continue to spell the capital of Ukraine as "Kiev."

But we all have our biases . . .

Alex

Dear Alex,

Did you know Emerson, Lake and Palmer had an album titled "Pictures at an Exhibition" and they did a wonderful rendition of "The Great Gates of Kiev". We even played that wonderful song in concert band in High School. For many, it was a first introduction to beautiful classical music. Not all headbangers have bad taste, you know.

What about Stouffer's with their poultry product- Chicken Kiev? It will costs thousands of dollars to rename their product.

And someone once told me that Kieffer Sutherland's name meant southern Kiev. (made that one up=sorry)

And last, but not least, I believe Kevin means "of Kiev". Is this correct?

Michael

Just a word from your friendly Town Hall moderator:

I know Steve did not reference this moderator personally, but I'll try to explain my particular policy.

I tend not to close threads on the forums (not to worry, u-c ) I moderate. I think our fellow posters have the patience to deal with those who overreact. The last threads I personally closed were in August which were threads that tried everyone's patience (even mine).

I do not respond to the person who sends "report post" alerts. I do view the posts in question, and if in my own judgement, albeit many times it may be flawed, I do not see a problem, I do not take action. If there is a problem and I have to edit or delete a post, I do contact the poster via PM, and make the poster aware of the problem. If the PM function is disabled, I make the poster(s) aware of my action within the thread.

Personally, I prefer that the posters make use of the Matthean principle: "If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother(Matthew 18:15)." Now this could be handled via PM or lacking the PM function within the thread itself. Hopefully, the appeal to the moderator or the Administrator is the last resort.

Anyway, this is how I attempt to moderate.

Dear Steve and UC,

I think that some people were pressing the 'report post' button a little too often. Probably gave them a sense of power.

Now I on the other hand, was rudely and sarcastically spoken to in some posts....yet I enjoyed making them look like fools by responding politely. Hey it's better than pressing that button.

...But then again, I forgot about the one's on Pope John Paul II. Kick them off! That's what I say.

Zenovia

I was curious as to the actual number of threads closed so I did a simple search and found the following results. The tally of closed threads over the last 60 days is:


forum 1.
https://www.byzcath.org/bboard/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002516;p=3
https://www.byzcath.org/bboard/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002473
forum 2.
https://www.byzcath.org/bboard/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=003628
https://www.byzcath.org/bboard/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=003629
https://www.byzcath.org/bboard/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=003608;p=2
forum 3.
none
forum 4.
https://www.byzcath.org/bboard/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=001559;p=3
forum 5.
none
forum 6.
none
forum 7.
https://www.byzcath.org/bboard/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=002396
https://www.byzcath.org/bboard/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=002390;p=2
forum 8.
none
forum 9.
https://www.byzcath.org/bboard/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000062
https://www.byzcath.org/bboard/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000044;p=4
(if the search is extended to 100 days, includes:)
https://www.byzcath.org/bboard/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000044;p=4
https://www.byzcath.org/bboard/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000043
forum 10. not accessible
forum 11.
https://www.byzcath.org/bboard/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=002870;p=4

While the totals seem fairly close between many of the forums, what does not show up in this search of course are the locked threads that were simply deleted nor the non-locked threads simply deleted with no explanation, a number of which were particular to the Kliros or Town Hall forums. Some of the deleted threads such as the one inquiring about starting a choir in their parish, though posted in the Kliros section was deleted without explanation. I didn't see anything wrong about a non cantor inquiring amongst a group of cantors, the question of starting a choir in their parish. In fact I recall having posted replies to the thread only to "see" it disappear shortly after with no explanation from whichever moderater removed it.

Moderation should itself be done in moderation.

If a post/thread is offensive, PLEASE, give some warning before just dismissively removing it! It is just as rude to the other posters on a particular subject to treat their replies and insights as worthless by summarily deleting an entire thread.

In the off-chance this thread also mysteriously disappears, I did copy this post for reference as I do with most of my posts here lately.

Sincerely and respectfully,

Steve Petach

Steve, until your post of closed thread data, then your comment about the starting a choir thread being deleted, I was unaware of the specific thread's being deleted outright from Kliros. Perhaps someone else can explain why that was done?

(Mind you, I still believe that deletions, closings, etc. are going to occur, and do not necessarily have to be publicly explained, because it might embarrass the originator. In this particular case I don't understand why the entire thread was deleted.)

I don't remember ever reporting a post on Town Forum, but on all the forums I appreciate it when moderators step in to clarify. It gives you the security to know they are reading the posts and really moderating/caring. And...we were reminded last year and more than once to use the report button when there was an uncharitable remark...not necessarily against us but anyone. So..now you are encouraging us to handle it ourselves ...or report only as a "last resort."

Hmmmmmm????

Dear Mary Jo,

We all have different styles of moderating, but the end product, I believe is effective. This is one of the most charitable forums around.

The 'Report Post' button is there for you and others to use in offensive posts. Most, (including myself), use it with discretion, and it is helpful in bringing the moderator's attention to a certain thread that may be going wayward...

I generally don't respond personally to the 'report posts' either, but I do heed them and if it is not urgent that one step in to delete or close a thread immediately, then I contact my co-moderators in order to get their input which I value greatly... (two heads are better than one!)

So please keep on alerting us when necessary because we need you and everybody else!

In Christ,
Alice

Thanks, for the encouragement, Alice.

Since coming aboard two years ago I have only used the button a few times and then only when I saw a definite lack of charity or something very offensive always with an explanation as to why I was sending the alert. Usually I thought the report post was to sort of alert a moderator in case they didn't see something going awry, since, obviously they can't be there all the time.

Keep up the good and caring work!

Mary Jo