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Didn't quite know where to post this. But are Catholics/Orthodox more Jewish than Jews? What I mean by this is that during the first century followers of Christ were Jews, albeit with a different focus but still considered themselves Jews. Since the Apostolic churches have an unbroken line from these early Christ-following Jews without a change in celebration, meaning we still gather to 'break bread'. Judaism after the destruction of the Temple became rabbinical; no more Pharisees, Sadduccees, Essenes, etc. SO, do Christians maintain a more 'pure' form of Judaism than modern Jews?

I think the more important thing to remember is, regardless of ritualistic continuity, for which a compelling case could be made, we are the true "People of Israel," the real spiritual Jews.

The way I look at it, our religion is not 2,000 years old, but closer to 4,000. Christianity is the continued/fulfilled Judaism and there is no break between the two. It seems to me that the "Judaism" of the past 2,000 years is the new religion.

Logos Teen

One will not find Hannukah in any Jewish holy books and must rely on tradition to know where it comes from, but you will find it in OURS since we kept the original books. Just an interesting tidbit.

I never knew that. That is interesting.

Glory to Jesus Christ!

I am saddened to read all of the posts on this thread, because it seems that the posters have not read (or not accepted) the Catholic Church's teaching on the Jews and Judaism.

These teachings are found in the Vatican II document "Nostra Aetate," and "Guidelines and Suggestions on the Implementation of 'Nostra Aetate' (also called the 1974 Guidelines)", and the USCCB document called "God's Mercy Endures Forever: Guidelines on the Presentation of Jews and Judaism in Catholic Preaching" (1988).

For example: it is certainly true that the deutero-canonical Books of the Maccabees are not in the Hebrew canon of Scripture. But the mandate for the celebration of Channukah is clearly given in the Talumidic tractate "Shabbat," which stipulates the date of the holy day and the way in which it is to be observed. Among Jews, the Talmud is called the "Oral Torah," and has the same authority as the "Written Torah," since both are seen to be from God Himself. So it's factually inaccurate to say that "one will not find Hannukah in any Jewish holy books."

Professor J. Michael Thompson
Byzantine Catholic Seminary
Pittsburgh, PA

Which Catholic Church teaching might you be referring to?

This one:325: The Council of Nicea decided to separate the celebration of Easter from the Jewish Passover. They stated: "For it is unbecoming beyond measure that on this holiest of festivals we should follow the customs of the Jews. Henceforth let us have nothing in common with this odious people...We ought not, therefore, to have anything in common with the Jews...our worship follows a...more convenient course...we desire dearest brethren, to separate ourselves from the detestable company of the Jews...How, then, could we follow these Jews, who are almost certainly blinded."

Or this one from the catechism:The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ",328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329

It can get confusing at times.

John of the Three-Barred Cross:

You have, perhaps inadvertently, proved my point.

The current teaching of the universal Catholic Church on this subject is summed up quite adequately in the "Catechism of the Catholic Church" which you have quoted. ESPECIALLY because the CCC has quoted (quite accurately, I assure you) the Holy Scriptures to make its point: please carefully read in context the quotes the CCC uses from the Epistle to the Romans (Rom. 9:4-5 and Rom. 11:29).

It is especially important to read the section of the "Catechism" on "The Transmission of Divine Revelation," CCC Part I, Article Two, 74-79.

Prof. J. Michael Thompson
Byzantine Catholic Seminary
Pittsburgh, PA

So the CCC supercedes the Nicean Council?

I believe the CCC give the correct mainframe which can be used to interpret the polemical 'tone' of Nicea.


I don't belive we (non-Hebrew Christian) are more Jewish than the Jews.
The fact that we lost a big deal of Hebrew community inside the Church is kinda sadden me.
Check out community like Association of Hebrew Catholics, perhaps we can learn lots of our faith Jewish roots.
http://hebrewcatholic.org/AboutheAHC/index.html