www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall 3 Christian girls beheaded in central Indonesia

This is horrible! May our Lord and Savior grant eternal mercy on these young ladies.

Story here: Here [japantoday.com]

Follow up story here: Indonesia tries to prevent reprisals after beheadings [iht.com]

Additonal follow up here: Indonesia boosts security after girls beheaded [alertnet.org]

This bothers me a lot- Michael

Has anyone seen the Christian names of these new martyrs? I understand the date of death is Thursday, 27 October?

Nick

Dear Michael,

This is something that will continue in the Muslim world and the lands bordering the Muslim world. Their leaders will continue to encourage them to frighten the Christians so that they will be forced to either convert or leave. As they leave and become less, the Muslim population will continue to grow. In time it will encompass more and more territory.

It is a well thought out plan by those wanting to restore either the caliphate, the Ottoman empire or what not. Somehow a business class is contrary to Muslim belief, and because of that they remain in poverty. Their only hope of a restoration of their dominance, is by making themselves the majority wherever they live. That way they can tax those of other faiths that tend to progress.

To understand the Muslims, we have only to look at Clinton's policy towards Kosovo, which was a total failure. The problem is now being brought up at the U.N.

When he bombed Kosovo and fought the Serbian army, he promised that Kosovo will remain part of Serbia. The U.N. soldiers are stationed there, but they have not been able to stop the Albanian Muslims terrorists from destroying all the ancient Christian Churches and Monasteries. Nor have they been able to fully protect the Serbs and other minorities such as the gypsies. In consequence the minorities have either fled or are fleeing.

The Muslim Albanians, Kosovans, those of Fyron who now call themselves Macedonians and the Muslims living in Greek Trace, etc. all consider themselves Turks. The fear of this government is that Turkey will unite with Iran. So for that reason, it supports Turkey fully, and is pushing for it to enter the E.U.

Now Turkey is hated by Syria and the Arabs, so Israel and Turkey have a common enemy. For that reason we are constantly supporting her. Yet, Turkey has her own plans. Whether she enters the E.U. or not, she will always get what she want...and she knows it. She plays her diplomacy well.

Right now the U. S. government has acknowledged the name 'Macedonia'. And yet the nation calling itself Macedonia has nothing to do with Macedonia. It is like the northern part of Mexico deciding to call itself 'Texas', or Quebec calling itself New York.

Now not only is it calling itself Macedonia, but at the same time it teaches in it's textbooks that the Greeks living in the true Macedonia, the one Alexander the Great came from, have taken the land away from them. In their tourist pictures they show the Greek port city of Solonika. Even Henry Kissinger said that anyone knowing their history would know that the nation now calling itself 'Macedonia', and that we have accepted, was really made up by the communist dictator Tito when he was in power in Yugoslavia.

Now this might seem like a small thing to nations not in the know, but many a Balkan war was fought over the port city of Solonika.

Now the U.S. government is going along with it because the 'Fyron Macedonians' have trouble with their Muslims and there is fear that there will be a civil war.

Of course there will be a civil war, and the Muslims as always will win because their propaganda machine and lobbying will start. We will then have a 'ligimatized' Muslum nation with a claim to the Northern part of Greece.

What we will then have is a reemergiance of the Ottoman Empire, because not only will Kosovo insist it unite with Albania, but will start arousing it's Muslim population in Greek Thrace. In time it will surround Greece, encompass it and start it's usual wars with a very 'weak' Serbia ...thanks to us.

Now this time when the Turks reach Vienna, they might not have to fight for it. The fighting might have been already managed by us and others.

Of course this is all speculation...but trying to understand the manipulations and motives of others is quite a smart thing. Had Clinton done that, he might not have bombed Kosovo or Serbia. His policy has been a complete failure and the problem of Kosovo is now being brought up in the U.N.

No doubt, the U.N. will give Kosovo it's independance, something that Clinton promised it will never have. Look at what's happening with Cyprus. The Turkish army is still occupying the Northern half illegally, yet Turkey is being invited into the E.U. and yet it doesn't recognize Cyprus when it is one of it's members. You figure!

Zenovia

Their names are:

Yusriani Sampoe aged 15 years,
Theresia Morangke aged 16
and Alvita Polio aged 19.

I don't know whether they were Protestant or Catholic - I'd guess that the one with a name like Theresia would be a Catholic.

Do we venerate martyred Protestants?

Of Indonesia's 220 million total population, about 85% are Muslim and only 5% Protestant and 3% Catholic.

Because "warring" groups involve Muslim versus Christians, the latter are, in fact, forced to join forces in many instances. A few years back, there were minor conflicts between Protestants (mostly Dutch Reformed courtesy of the Netherlands) and Catholics (courtesy of Portugal and Spain); but, now, they have to look out for each other.

It's disheartening, and the Indonesian government cannot take sides, because the parties involved are ALL Indonesians, with some familial ties on both sides.

East Timor, a former part of Indonesia, fought a 25-year bloody civil war with the central government and its neighbor ("Western" Timor). Predominatly Catholic (90% of slightly over 1 million total population), East Timor gained freedom and independence from Indonesia in 2002, the "second" Catholic country in Asia next to the Philippines!

The island of Suwalesi (Celebes) is much larger than the island of Timor and has more population. An incendiary spark like the beheading of the 3 Christian girls might fan the pre-existing animosity between Muslims and Christians on the island. They had bloody skirmishes as late as last year, in addition to the continuing conflict between Muslims and Christians in the Moluccas Islands, farther East.

Let's hope and pray that the authorities will be able to bring the culprits to justice! Otherwise, the simmering "war of attrition" will explode in their faces like it did in East Timor and, relatively, in the Moluccas Islands.

Amado

From Rome, Pope Benedict XVI codemns slaughter of Indonesian Christian girls:

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=40468

The reaction of Indonesian officials, more particularly Pres. Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono:

http://www.asianews.it/view.php?l=en&art=4486

Amado

Dear Zenovia, your post about Kosovo was very well put! There was a time when I was there, I told my superiors we were supporting the wrong side! It seems our government has forgotten how in World War II, Serbian Partisans rescued downed allied pilots and got took care of them. No, I wasn't there in WWII, my time was let's say, more recent! I applaud your observations as most people ignore what is going on!

Dear Zenovia,

Thank you for the post. I must however disagree with some of your statements. My Orthodox in-laws are from a small village near Florina "Northern Greece".
This area and around the northern borders IS what was known as Macedonia proper. It was not until 1919 that Southern Macedonia was to be called Greece.
The Macedonians are an unfortunate race. They are situated right in the middle of the Balkans. In my opinion, Alexander the Great was a Macedonian. As was his father King Philip.
I find it difficult to understand that my father in law's mother, who lived in "Northern Greece" her entire life did not and could not speak one work or Greek. Her husband was beaten nightly by the Greek officials in that area because he could not speak Greek either.
I pray that this area and issue will be peacefully resolved and that Greeks, Macedonians, Bulgarians, Serbians (Muslims and Orthodox) can all live in peace in such a beautiful area of the world.

Brad

And, I say breathlessly, Prince Charlie is coming over here to lecture us on how benign Muslims are. OY VEY!! :rolleyes:

CDL

A martyr is not anyone who happens to get killed because of ethnical religiousity of different strugles between two groups or nations.


Neither is a conflict a purely religious one, simply because the conflicting parties belong to two different religions.


For example, I dont think serbs respresent orthodoxy, whereas albanians islam, in the kosovo conflict. Serbs and albanian kosovans are largely part of a former socialist atheistic society, where religion was persecuted or ignored. As well, neither do serbs hate albanians simply as religious enemies, and neither do albanians in kosovo destroy serb churches simply because they are churches. For example they didnt destroy the catholic churches over there.


Therefore, a serious christian has to be open minded, in the sense that he should reject oppression, injustice of whatever side, and should seek the opposite for whatever side.