www.byzcath.org

Sorry, but I would have supported you had I seen the post. I haven't seen that movie and have no desire to. The GO priest was right, that movie emphasizes the perspectives of Western tradition, not Byzantine.

Well not really because its not especially true and having studied 16th century for the past two years I think I can make an informed judgement on this. There were many, many reasons why people converted to Lutheranism. Some people genuinely wanted reform, some people were simply fed up of being bled dry by Roman tithes, some were angry because they thought indulgences were a cheat, some were simply merchants looking to break down the established aristocracy so they can make money, some were aristocracts hungry for the lands of the Church etc.etc. And lets not forget the majority of Germans stayed Roman Catholic. No shock given the Holy Roman Empire had its seat in Southern Germany-Austria from Otto I in the 10th century until Bismarck's re-unification plans deliberately cut Catholic Austria out of the picture.

As for the movie ideas. What about Heraclius' quest for the true Cross? It could depict Heraclius defeating Persia and winning back the true Cross only to die frail and old in war against the Jihading Arabs as they explode into his Imperium.

PS) I reckon it was a good movie. Not great. But good enough . At least it didnt Make Jesus look like a hippie or some new age guru.

I would film the Crusades (featuring the 4th: the sack of Constantinople and a battle or two between the Crusaders and the Ottoman Empire's army) which would take care of the break between the East and the West.

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That would be my dream. Can you imagine seeing Venice in all it's glory, and Constantinople. I would love to see the clothing they wore, etc. I'm such a romantic.

Zenovia

Hal, excuse us for being a biiiit sloooooow.

It's funny, Hal, in spite of your previous post everyone was raving rather on how that movie was going to change the world. Seems to have gone down the path of other graphic movies, people who saw it have moved on.

It's strange, and perhaps others have noticed, but I've seen no interviews with the sole Eastern Christian on the cast, Bulgarian Hristo Shopov (who was Pontius Pilate and was by far my favorite in terms of acting ability in that movie). It would be interesting to get his thoughts.

Hal is correct about his post that a GO priest said that the Passion movie was not in keeping with the Byzantine Tradition. I still disagree with that opinion. The Byzantine Church uses icons � theology in color. While modern methods of filmmaking are not (and never can be) icons they can and do provide a new vehicle for proclaiming Christ crucified, buried and risen from the dead. Every now and then I see a news story about someone who reformed his life after seeing the movie. I have a good friend that I meet about once a month for burgers-n-beer (or whatever). The movie did change his life and I can see the changes in him. Yes, the world has forgotten. But that is to be expected.

I realise of course that Eastern Christians view Great-Good Friday in terms of Christ's victory and exhaltation, while we Latin's save that for Easter Sunday, still I'm curious as to how an Eastern Christian would portray the agony in the garden, scourging at the pillar, crowning with thorns etc.

I have the coffee table book and the movie, and at times when needed I use parts of each to re-center myself, kinda like freeze frames, believe me it does jog the mind and heart.

james

I don't mean to start up another debate about the movie but here is an interesting view from Fr. Emmanuel McCarthy. I believe he is, or was, the rector of the Melkite seminary.

http://www.cjd.org/paper/mccarthy.html

I forgot to say in reference to the Administrator's post, that the parable of the sower fits the movie, some seed falls on good earth and grows, some among the rocks etc.

Be it a East or West source, its the message that counts.

james

Fr. McCarthy makes some good points in this article. Many years to him (he is also a very strong supporter of Bishop Botean's position against the war, by the way).

Saying it is "of God", I am not sure I would go that far. Inspired by God, at least in Mr. Gibson's heart and mind, certainly.

I would leave the movie not as Mr. Gibson's accurate portrayal of the Gospels but rather as Mr. Gibson's interpretation of Emerich's writings. Anyone who has read them (and I only partially at that) can see immediately what the real source of his interpretation was.

Although I did admittedly like the movie, I haven't noticed a flood of conversions because of it like the real, first Passion. Nor can this, which is only a movie in the end, a personal interpretation on the screen, reproduce or replace anything like the Passion in my heart, which is lived out for me far more beautifully and profound in our Holy Week Passion and Resurrection Services.

I would love to hear what Hristo Shopov's (who played Pilate, did I say I thought he did the best acting job ) observations are as a Bulgarian Orthodox about the movie in relation to his faith.

Opinions on the movie, as the article by Hal and Fr. McCarthy show, are certainly mixed among Orthodox, Catholic, and Eastern Catholic clergy on the movie (Archbishop Soroka was quite critical as well).

"Hal is correct about his post that a GO priest said that the Passion movie was not in keeping with the Byzantine Tradition. I still disagree with that opinion."

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Dear Administrator,

I sense that we in the West, need to feel what our Lord suffered for our redemption.

I recall once that Billy Graham was told by the Russian Patriarch at the time, that he must emphasize the Resurrection more.

Since then he has, and yet it just doesn't seem to have the same effect on us...at least not on me. I can't help but feel that the East is a culture that desires the 'triumphant', while we are a competitive culture, and as thus, prefer the sacrifice.

Zenovia

Hello All

I haven`t sseen the Passion yet but had promised myself to see it before Easter, but am now wondering which version to see since hearing about the recut version being released this week-end.

BTW, you can call me a 'ROAMIN CATHOLOIC' also, I think. Due to my location I have been attending Latin Rite parishes for many years now, I can`t tell you how great something like this forum is for someone like me. It is a wonderful way for me to stay in touch with my Byzantine roots and though I have been long since accustomed to and have come to understand and appreciate the West, I still need to feel a connection to my Eastern roots as my heart is in the East. Thanks again for your great forum.

Zenovia,

Good observations.

Last year, I wondered if the movie should have included an account of the Resurrection. As one celebrates the Byzantine Holy Week services there is a very strong undercurrent of �Christ is risen�, even during the darkest hymns of Good Friday. That undercurrent is not as readily evident in the Latin Holy Week Services.

I can respect that some people will like the movie and others will not like (each for legitimate reasons). I am bothered, however, that some set their expectations so high that nothing can meet them.

Admin

I think movies, in general, are more important to some than to others. I don't watch them very often, and get bored with them quickly. To hold my interest, the movie has to be exceptional. I always have the feeling when watching movies, that I should be doing something more useful and productive with that time. But I agree with Diak that this movie is more Emmerich, than Gospels. It seems that after the Black Death struck Europe, a morbid, death-obsessed, mindset took hold there and affected the Church. I have no problems with the accounts in the Gospels, but I do not view Emmerich as being on the same level as the Gospels.

Dear Charles,

Yes, indeed.

If people experience a feeling of conversion after having watched the Passion, perhaps it is because of a tremendous sense of sorrow at how Christ is portrayed in His sufferings in the movie.

That is not a bad thing, but that is not how the East views the reasons why we should fully convert to Christ and live in Him.

I've seen iconography depicting Christ in the Garden, being scourged etc.

In all cases, the icons depict Him as the God-Man, in full control of the situation as He undergoes His voluntary Passion.

For me, the Byzantine iconography depicting Christ's Passion speaks more than the graphic human cruelty of Mel's movie where there is no reference to Theosis and where there is the imbalance, as you and Diak have mentioned, between the Passion and the Resurrection of Christ.

The iconic Cross of San Damiano is a case in point. Although He is crucified, the icon shows that Christ is the Lord of Glory, the Master of the situation and the icon of the Resurrection is already indicated above our Lord's Head.

Alex