www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Mel Gibson interview on Primetime

The new church paid for by Mel is also by the same name, but is brand-spanking new. It is for 'traditionalists.'

Hi All,

I was surfing the net for "Mel Gibson schismatic" and I found a newspaper article that said "his" parish is called Holy Family. His local Catholic parish of the Archdiocese of LA is Our Lady of Malibu.

The article further stated that Holy Family was not a parish of the Archdiocese of LA.

I like Mel Gibson, but I think he is a little crazy. You know the creative type. His schismatic/cowboy Catholisism may be an over reaction to his self-admitted past wild lifestyle.

He'll come back to Rome or the East.

Paul

Paul,

Thank you. Many can't decide if the church is built or not either. Whatever the scoop, he's building his own church that is traditionalist.

Joe

Joe,

I think it is well established that Mel's father is sedevacantist, however I don't think it can be concluded that Mel is. I have never met a sedevacantist who was willing to attend a Mass offered by anyone under Rome let alone commune at it.

I also noticed that in the interview that Mel stated he believed it possible a non-Christian could get to heaven, via invincible ignorance I assume. I know of no sedevacantist who accepts this.

Mel, being rich can afford to do what many cannot, that is trump the local Latin bishop who refuses to allow Indult Masses despite Papal requests for generous application of the Indult, by building your own church and arranging for priests (SSPX or religious priest willing to say the Tridentine Mass?)

Fr. Deacon Lance

Deacon Lance,

I can't believe it! Archbishop Mahoney will not allow the Indult Mass? With all those conservative Catholics in LA (I used to live there).

He's not Irish.

//I think it is well established that Mel's father is sedevacantist, however I don't think it can be concluded that Mel is. I have never met a sedevacantist who was willing to attend a Mass offered by anyone under Rome let alone commune at it. //

Fr. Lance,

Once again, read what I wrote:

�� Gibson�s father is a member of the sedevacantist movement.
� Mel Gibson told Diane Sawyer that he was Catholic as it was before the mid-1960s (pre-Vatican II).
�
� Though Mel belongs to the same movement that his father, Hutton, belongs, he doesn�t agree with him on many things.�

I never concluded that Mel was a sedevacantist. I said that he �belongs to the same movement� as his father, namely the traditionalist movement as has been observed many times. I should have elaborated. The Sedevacantist movement and traditionalist movement can mean two different things and they do share some similar traits. I could see how stating his father's "movement" first in my laundry list can mislead one to conclude that the same movement Mel belongs to is sedevacantist, and not traditionalist. I apologize. I also stated that Mel �doesn�t agree with him [Hutton] on many things.� Again, pardon my wording. I only began using the sedevacantist term now in reference to Hutton Gibson. I have always referred to Mel's "movement" as traditionalist. Again, sorry.

//I also noticed that in the interview that Mel stated he believed it possible a non-Christian could get to heaven, via invincible ignorance I assume. I know of no sedevacantist who accepts this.//

That should be the best evidence(?) that Mel is not a sedevacantist. It was Mel�s father, Hutton, who published books like �The Enemy Is Coming� and �Is the Pope Catholic?�, both being �private� publications. Near the end of the Primetime interview, Mel basically told Diane Sawyer �don�t go there� � regarding his relationship with his father. Mel loves his father, despite their theological differences, and doesn�t want anyone to �drive a wedge� between them. The few sources of information on this topic is not enough to really pinpoint Mel�s place in (or outside) Catholicism. He only refers to pre-1960s (pre-Vatican II) Catholicism.

//Mel, being rich can afford to do what many cannot, that is trump the local Latin bishop who refuses to allow Indult Masses despite Papal requests for generous application of the Indult, �//

This is correct. Here in Cleveland, the local Latin Catholic bishop sent letters warning about the dangers of the Passion movie. I haven�t heard of any priest in the area promoting the movie and/or buying out blocks of tickets for his parishioners. Cleveland is no friend of anything resembling pre-Vatican II.

As traditionalist as Mel is, I can understand how he took the movie to priests and Evangelicals first. Do you think the Catholic bishops would understand the movie? Professor Paula Frederickson states her fears that it would only be a reflection of his traditionalist ideas.

Joe

PS: Should the Passion movie end like Dominic Crossan�s version?

Joe,

"Do you think the Catholic bishops would understand the movie?"

They should and I think most do, but alas like Cleveland it seems many are worried about being PC and not offending the ADL.

"Should the Passion movie end like Dominic Crossan�s version?"

Of course not, do you believe I think it should?

Fr. Deacon Lance

Fr. Lance,

I'm glad that we agree. The SSPX community here in Cleveland once attempted to find protection under the omophorion of the Eparchy of Parma.

Do you think letters should be sent out to Catholics warning them about reading Crossan's books?

Joe

Joe,

The only problem is that there are so many wacko nominal Catholic authors out there you would need to send a letter every week. I advise people not to be their religious books at Walden's and the like because the stock is usually more Crossan than Chrysostom. I advise them to stick with Orthodox and Catholic publishers known for their orthodoxy.

Fr. Deacon Lance

//The only problem is that there are so many wacko nominal Catholic authors out there you would need to send a letter every week.//

Dear Fr. Lance,

I agree. But whereas in the past the list of forbidden books warned/banned books because of their CONTENT, today books or movies are getting warnings because of the POTENTIAL for misunderstanding. Can you imagine how many books would be on a list due to potential misunderstanding? But why Mel�s movie? The head of the ADL even stated that �it is not anti-Semitic� nor was Mel. But letters WERE sent out to Catholics regarding the POTENTIAL. What happened to content? This new strategy doesn't give content a chance!

//I advise people not to be their religious books at Walden's and the like because the stock is usually more Crossan than Chrysostom.//

I agree. But you should see the cr*p that is being sold in Catholic bookstores these days. Some books that were banned are still there being sold. I bought more Chrysostom at Borders than any nearby Catholic bookstore can even consider having on their bookshelves.

//I advise them to stick with Orthodox and Catholic publishers known for their orthodoxy.//

Good point.

I finally found this from the �Catholic� Diocese of Cleveland website. I found it under all those articles about child molestation and the Gay and Lesbian Family Ministry news:

�In the next few months there are at least two movies to be released on the passion and death of Jesus Christ. While it is admirable that the message of the Gospel is found in cinema, Christians and especially Catholics must be very aware, as our Holy Father Pope John Paul has indicated, that "... erroneous and unjust interpretations of the New Testament regarding the Jewish people and their alleged culpability have circulated for too long, engendering feelings of hostility toward this people." Such interpretations of the New Testament have been totally and definitively rejected by the Second Vatican Council. Priests and deacons from the pulpit and especially teachers of our children should be very clear in our teaching. We should especially understand that Jewish concern over these movies is not directed to the core of our faith, but rather at the erroneous interpretations of the faith that have engendered hostility to Jews over the centuries. There is available from the Interfaith Office, "Criteria for the Evaluation of Dramatizations of the Passion" which may prove helpful to priests, deacons and religious educators. Call 216-696-6525 or 800-869-6525 ext. 5110�

If there is nothing anti-Semitic in the film and content is no longer the basis of the actual charges being made, then what exactly IS the problem? Mel Gibson stated in the interview that if one can't get the message, then get the messenger. It is about character assassination. Do you think this has to do with his traditional form of Catholicism, which may POTENTIALLY anger liberal bishops?

Do you think the Catholic bishop of Cleveland could have also issued a memo about the POTENTIALLY positive responses that could be made by the viewers after seeing the movie? or would that have not been in their interest?

There are, indeed, many "erroneous and unjust interpretations of the New Testament" regarding Jesus too. Our local 'Catholic' bookstore was trying to peddle "Gaia and God" awhile back as overflow texts from the local seminary. This was displayed next to all the de Mio(sp?) books.

Joe

The last line should read the name 'Anthony de Mello,' a hot author at some Catholic bookstores.

Interesting thing about Borders or Barnes-and-Noble; they have a lot of books on Eastern Christianity. Pelikan's 2nd volume on Eastern Christianity is hardly kept on the shelf. Unfortunately, in the four Catholic bookstores near my home, a book on Eastern Christianity is either rare or nonexistent.

Joe

Friends,

I only buy Christian books recomended by trusted friends or a reputable Catholic/Orthodox publishers.

My favorites are Ignattius Press, Sophia Press, Tan Publishers (oldies, but goodies), Eparchy of Newton Educational Services, and Catholic Book Publishing (I love their children's books).

I'm sure you folks have your favorites too.

I get a warm fuzzy feeling when the book has a Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur, but not all of those censors/bishops are good judges of orthordoxy.

Paul