www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Episcopal Church USA elects Woman Presiding Bishop

Is that our loss, or yours? You have a great day.

Fr. Mike,

With all do respect we have the "True Faith." Our Church is based upon the "Rock" and the teachings of the Church will never change regardless of whom leaves or joins.

Yours in the risen Christ!
Ray
Florida

You know - and I have nothing against Fr. Mike - all this raises a question. Do we believe that truth was revealed in apostolic times and that it is eternally unchanging? Does it require our adherence until the end of time? Or do we examine truth and reinterpret it according to the norms of our time and culture? I realize we may never agree on this.

I don't think that truth should conform to the culture in matters where sin is involved.

As far as the existence of women priests and bishops, no sin is involved.

As far as the existence of an openly homosexual bishop, a sinful lifestyle is being accepted and repentance is not immenent.

Therefore, though I am no feminist by any means, (I do think that there are ways that women can participate in the Church and contribute to it spiritually without holy orders), I would say that the former is more acceptable than the latter.

Just my humble opinion and spare two cents!

In Christ,
Alice, who does not wish to offend Fr. Mike or any other committed and beloved in Christ, brethren belonging to the Episcopal Church.

I don't know. This whole thing to me is sad. Reaching out in love and speaking truth is what we are called to do. Not condemnation, but by grace and perserverance speaking truth which leads away from the sin, but always with love.

God is very clear, you love the sinner and not the sin.
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsa...COPALS-BISHOP.xml&src=rss&rpc=22

I agree with you, Alice, on the gay lifestyle of the bishop. It is sinful. Of course, I could never accept the ordination of women as valid, since valid matter wasn't there to consecrate in the first place. It may not be sinful as such. But does it create scandal, which can be sinful? I know a dear lady who confessed to a local priest that she had been pulling brush and weeds from her yard on Sunday. The priest said, "did anyone see you?" What he was asking was, if she had created scandal and bad example to others by her actions. He viewed this as compounding the act she had committed, which by itself might not have been sinful.

Thank God that heresy and schism are coming to their logical conclusion and those who uphold them are gradually dying out.
The Episcopal Church in the USA and the Presbyterian Church USA has lost half of their membership. What else can we say when such traversities go on where anything goes but Truth.
Stephanos I

Dear Charles,

I know well of what you are saying about female ordination and scandal...(and I also agree that they are not valid, but then again, perhaps, according to our churches, even male ordinations are not apostolically valid).

My uncle, of blessed memory, was a devout cradle Episcopalian who was so scandalized at the first female ordination, that he left his beloved church. He never joined another church, and basically remained churchless for years until his death, at which time, he was given a funeral service in the beautiful Episcopalian cathedral he had grown up in--and thankfully, the officiator was still a man!

Alice

I wonder what this will do ecumenically bewtween ECUSA and RCs in the US. I know that many times, the Episcopal bishops are invited to RC celebrations and dialogues. With the presiding bishop a female, I wonder if the US bishops would acknowledge her as a bishop and continue such invitations. What are the implications for the RCC of acknowledging her as such?

Uncharted territory, and a sticky wicket to say the least.

Fr. Mike,

"As regards our new primate: Te Deum Laudamus!"

I am saddened to see you are happy that a bishop who stands in direct opposition to the Scriptures and Tradition has been eleceted your primate.

"Please also note that more guys from Rome come to the Episcopal Church than ours to yours."

I don't know if I would brag about that. We have gained your best, while you have gained our worst. In fact, you are welcome to all the dissenters masquerading as Catholic priests.

I would also note that I don't know of a single parish that has left the Catholic or Orthodox Church for the Episcoapl Church. On the otherhand, several entire Episcopal parishes have joined either the Catholic or Orthodox Church and it certainly seems like both are poised to gain more due to the Episcopal Church's abandonment of Christ's teachings.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Really? Even though your new primate advocates sin?

New US Church Leader Says Homosexuality No Sin [today.reuters.com]

So you praise God that a leader was chosen for your church that advocates sin and whose election is likely to create great schism in your church? You really think this is a good thing?

How very sad.

As the article states your new primate, the one who openly advocates and supports the sin of sodomy and denies the Holy Scriptures was "one of ours" before she left the Roman Catholic Church for the Episcopal church.

I'm not sure I'd be bragging about that.

All,


The recent developments in the Episcopal Church USA are truly saddening. Many within the Episcopal Church had called for more time in healing the rift that began in 2003 and had asked for more dialoging. With the election of Bishop Jefferts-Schori however, it was clear that they opted to allow their church to effectively collapse into schism.

We all know that the ECUSA, since 2003, has been in a precarious state. Now, choosing to elect a female bishop (which a large portion of worldwide Anglican bishops oppose) only serves to further alienate them from not only from the rest of the worldwide Anglican Communion but from historic Christianity (Catholicism and Orthodoxy) as well.

As for continued ecumenical discussions with the ECUSA or Anglicanism and the Roman Catholic Church, it has been stated recently that the ascension of female bishops (especially within the Church of England) will destroy any further hopes of unity.

Fortunately, since the late 70�s, when female priests were first allowed within the ECUSA, a significant minority of Episcopalians founded their own denominations which preserved the traditional male episcopate and catholic order within Anglicanism.

The largest of these groups is known as the Traditional Anglican Communion (TAC) and is independent of Canterbury. This is the group that recently has made it public their intention to join en masse with the Roman Catholic Church.

Hopefully, we can move the process along for them quickly and create some sort of Apostolic Administration for them. And surely many of the remnants of the Anglo-Catholics in ECUSA would come along as well, should they so choose.

We should all be disheartened, and not even because they have elected a gay man or a female as bishop, but rather, that their Church is literally falling apart with no hopes of recovering. And this should be sad for all Christians.

As representatives of the Body of Christ, schism and discord are not what we should be characterized by. Let us pray for healing.

Lord, protect the Episcopal Church and all your faithful.

ProCatholico

Dear ProCatholico,

As a Moderator of this forum, I would like to thank you for a fair and spiritually balanced post.

When I think of how my uncle became unchurched because of these scandalous changes and how, subsequently, his four children, wife and grandchildren failed to find importance in church going--I am saddened.

When I think of the young (youngest assigned to a parish in the NY diocese) Episcopalian priest in my neighborhood who I had the priveledge of meeting and hearing at our town's annual interfaith Thanksgiving service, and how ONLY he, of all the ministers, priests, immams, and rabbis there, glowed with kindness and spiritual love, when I think of how friendly and unprejudiced he was, and how genuinely interested in our church's iconography he was, and how he and his young wife were active in doing works of charity in the name of Christ, I am truly saddened by the problems tearing his church apart.

Scandal exists in every Church body at one time or another and, unfortunately, the end result is always the loss of souls. It has even happened to a few very close to me, because of a scandalous period in my own church.

The only sad and most notable difference in the scandals afflicting the Episcopalian Church in America, is that, unlike all the other scandals we know of and are aware of within Christianity, this one is official and sanctioned.

In Christ,
Alice

This article is a good explanation of what is happening in the Episcopal Church. The ex-Epicopal Priest Jim Pinto, referred to in this article, is a friend of ours.
http://tmatt.gospelcom.net/tmatt/freelance/4camps.htm

I found it rather funny that another friend and I were speaking of this the other night in chat. He was there when Jim Pinto and Bishop Spong met. He was telling me about it.

This is the same Jim Pinto, now Pastoral Associate, Priests for Life. He is also, working with the seminary for priests from the order that has been established for that purpose of teaching and preaching pro-life.
http://www.priestsforlife.org/staff/pinto.htm

Pani Rose

Dear Fr. Mike,

You stated:

Please forgive me, but I must address your comment. I understand many of these posts from fellow forum members do not coincide with views of members of your faith community. However, I do not believe any of these posts resorted to name calling, other than discussion of different moral values present within our various faith communities, of which many value and protect very highly.

As a man of the cloth, and a physical representative of Jesus Christ himself, I am extremely surprised and more so disappointed by your statement above.

We should all share the same goal of achieving unity within God's one true Church, not condone the further splintering of His Church.

In the eastern tradition, when someone is elevated to the Diaconate in Christ, we, the people, sing "Axios" [Greek for he is worthy.]

This is one time I wish I knew how to say the opposite. I realize that I am not loving my neighbor by writing this post and I ask for forgiveness to all forum members, but also, I feel compelled to voice my concerns over your post.

I look forward to sharing thoughts and ideas with you, Fr. Mike, and not resorting to nah nah nah nahs.

In Christ,

Michael