www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Episcopal Church USA elects Woman Presiding Bishop

I'm glad that Byzantinemo has posted. He is a witness to the fact that even though one may be attracted to someone of the same sex, it doesn't mean he has to jump ship to a more "tolerant church" who will accept a sinful lifestyle. Our friend here has guts, and I admire him for it. Thanks to you Byzantinemo for posting!

Don't you just have to admire someone who doesn't give in when carrying a cross? It's so easy to cut and run to a church that will condone anything you choose to do. Maybe guys like this who don't run away are the ones with real courage.

Hi,

I don't want this chance to agree with you slip through the cracks.

I pray Our Lord grant us this kind of courage to each and every one of us, when it comes to carry our own crosses.

Brother Nemo, thank you for being here with us. Your conviction and courage is truly a gift from God, not only for you, but for all of us who recognize His work in you.

God bless you!

Shalom,
Memo

Dr. Eric, ByzanTN and Memo

God bless you for your kind words, but I must confess when my wife divorced me because of my admitting my SSA to her, I fell off the wagon and began to "explore" my SSA if you know what I mean.

After over four months away from the Church, I had my three kids with me for the weekend and took them to DL. With that, I knew that I had come home and had to return to confession, return to Our Lord in the Eucharist, and to admit the sinfulness of what I'd been doing over those four-plus "apostate" months of mine.

People told me that I should try a more lenient, tolerant church, but the more I thought about it, the words "...but where will we go, Lord, only You have the words of eternal life" kept insinuating themselves into my thoughts.

Must have had something to do with the fact that, even at my most debauched, I still managed to pray just one simple prayer "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner". Not to mention the prayers of my brothers and sisters in Christ who prayed for me when I was so down as to be unable to pray anything more than the Jesus Prayer myself.

NEMO

Dear NEMO,

Once again thank you for the courage to post what you have written. I didn't know that your wife divorced you, I'm sorry to hear that.

I am glad that you didn't give up when you had given in to your SSA. I'm glad that you came back to the Church after leaving. I believe the Lord has a plan for you and I pray that you will be patient enough and pray and fast enough so that it will be revealed to you.

God Bless You,

Dr. Eric

Friends:

I think it best that I "take a break" from this forum for a while. I am constantly amazed at the rhetoric
(mean spirited) that takes place here.

Let me inform you that there is no sanctioned liturgy in the Episcopal Church that involves Wicca.
It ain't happening where I'm at and I don't know about it happening anywhere else.

As for Mother Jesus: Bernard of Clairvaux, Hildegard of Bingen and Julian of Norwich referred to her in that way in their writings.

I wish all of you well. I assure you that I believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, obey my Bishop,
intently study the scriptures but have reason to question the church's stand on homosexuality.
I do not provide blessings for such people
(my bishop would haul me into an ecclesiastical court)and I intend to follow the canons of the church.

I also love my Ruthenian Byzantine heritage and spend a good bit of my prayer life practicing it.

My parish has opened its doors to ALL PEOPLE and we all get along, love God and practice love and patience with each other.

Time for a sabbatical. I wish y'all well.


Fr. Mike

I agree with you on two points.

Someone should only become Catholic or Orthodox because they feel the truth resides in those churches and not to escape something, and also that charity should always be maintained.

Charity is not simply being nice or cordial though, charity can mean being honest. There are I know many wonderful individuals in the Episcopal Church. The fact is the church is more than any one individual, and they are all connected. This is both through the rites and ordinances they share, but realistically in the fact that they contribute their time, effort and money to the church they are members of.

The Episcopal Church has not simply departed from the apostolic tradition regarding things such as the nature and eligibility of ordination. They have said sin is acceptable (homosexuality). They have bishops who since the 60�s (starting with Jim Pike) have denied essential elements of the faith such as the Holy Trinity and the divine nature of Christ. The Fathers as I recall said heresy leads to death of the soul. I could continue � there are Episcopal priests who openly support abortion rights. Read about the �Rev.� Katherine Ragsdale or look on the web site of the ECUSA itself to find pictures of clergy marching in �pro choice� events. It's frightening.

Charity in this instance I think means honesty. Consider what the ECUSA is doing and ask yourself if that church is serving God. The truth is Episcopalians need to get out of that church as fast as their feet will take them. They can�t exist in isolation from what is going on, though they may individually be good people.

Andrew

Fr Mike,

May OUr Lord bless you in your ministry. Although I have problems with some of the theology of the US Episcopal Church (especially figures like Bishop SPong), I admire the way they have treied to include gay and lesbian people there and their actions against prejudice and discrimination which SO many have experienced (I KNOW and have heard the horror stories!) Thank you for being there for them and for all people in your congregation!!!

I for one believe that you are most welcome here and don't think that the more shrill voices represent the majority of those on this Forum and especially those ordinary Eastern Catholic and Orthodox Christians who seek every day to live their faith as humbly as they can!

May Our Lord bless you!

Peace,
Brian Seraphim

P.S. I do believe that your voice is needed here!

Hi,

A few years ago, when the ordination of women to the episcopal priesthood was making headlines, one of the "cute" thins that were being discussed was the special designs for maternity cassocks and other vestments.

Men are not exempt from conditions that would temporally prevent a dignified celebration of the sacraments. I would assume that a pregnant priest (or bishop, for that matter), would stop officiating in public as the due date approaches.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the Church's position about this issue is NOT "Eeewwwww! women priests!".

Some of these posts leave an aftertaste of that, and I think that, if it is there, it is wrong.

Shalom,
Memo

How much longer must people who believe that sin is sin have to put up with being labelled "mean-spirited" or "shrill"?

True charity involves correcting people who are in error and telling people when they are committing sin and should renounce this sin and mend their ways. The new PC "charity" is actually nothing of the sort, since it follows a vapid, "nicey-nice above all else", "I'm OK, you're OK" philosophy. Fact is folks, we're all sinners so I'm not OK and neither are you. I do love you all as my Christian brothers and sisters, which is why I believe I have an obligation to correct you in your sins and errors as you have an obligation to correct me in mine.....of which there are VERY MANY I can assure you.

Fr. Mike, I do feel an obligation to correct you in your error. You left the Church founded by Our Lord himself in favor of one established by Henry VIII solely based on his political agenda. The title "Defensor Fidei" used by English monarchs since the 16th century was originally conferred on Henry VIII by the Catholic Church before Henry renounced the Faith in favor of a lie so he could divorce and remarry a woman who could bear him a son.

Brian, you've read my postings about my struggles with SSA. If I could change Church teaching, I would. It truly grieves me to know that I'm "gravely disordered". However, since I can't, I have to accept this teaching re: SSA, since unlike the protestant sects, my Church was founded by Christ Himself.

Remember, folks, Scripture admonishes us to correct each other. I believe in this, whether you think I'm nice for doing so or not.

NEMO

I found this by accident via a blog(Pontifications), a convert to Orthodoxy...a female Episcopal priest...a good interesting read.


http://descant.classicalanglican.net/?p=1955

PAX
james

Very interesting.

Andrew

Nemo,

I respect you very very much although we disagree about particulars. I do believe there is a difference between the shrillness that comes from hatred and ignorance and wise corrective counsel. They are different things and I htink the former is too often in evidence and has driven so many gay people from the church and really, their stories need to be heard before others start opening their mouths. I love my CHurch just as much as those on the "other side"
Again, I pray for you and respect your views immensely!

Peace,
Brian

Dear Brian,

Indeed there are many shrill voices quick to condemn those with same-sex attractions. As I've said before, it pains me as a Catholic to find folks like me described as "gravely-disordered" by the Church. I didn't choose to be this way and sometimes I feel like the Church could be a bit less harsh in its description of the homosexual condition. However, I do feel that I am not free to dissent from Church teaching because of our Lord's having granting the authority to "bind and loose" to His Apostles.

However, what He did not do is give any authority at all to some wild-eyed Bible thumper representing some "church" founded during my lifetime. It truly infuriates me to see guys like this "Reverend" Phelps clown and his family members demonstrating with their "God hates fags" signs.

All I'm trying to say is that there are more than a few in the gay activist community who, rather than respectfully disagreeing as you do with me, seem to be intent on silencing even the more moderate opposing viewpoints by attempting to brand all who disagree with them as "bigoted" or "homophobic".

Thank you for your kindness, Brian, and may God bless you always!

NEMO

Gosh this topic has gone on and on, and as tends to happen here every so often gets caught up way of track on the 'gay' topic yet again.

I agree with Andrew's comments above. The Anglican Communion will jump through hoops and make some accommodation for women bishops and gay clergy. We just need to wait for what ever else they want to do next. It is famous for keeping communion regardless of the issues.

If anyone comes across from that camp they should be coming to the Orthodox or Catholic Church because they believe the teaching of the Church they are interested in. We have many ex Protestant ministers who have realised that the fullness of the Church was elsewhere and come over to both the Orthodox and Catholic churches and with humility they acknowledged that their orders were invalid and accepted ordination into the respective churches.