www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Malcov, Saris, Slovakia

Slava Isusu Christu!

My family and I will be visiting Hungary and Slovakia for a few weeks in June, and I was wondering if anyone has any information about Malcov in Slovakia.

Malcov is the village in which my great-grandmother (surname: Gavalecz / Gawales) was born � I have her baptismal certificate (in Cyrillic), which notes the name of Malcov�s Greek Catholic church as Church of the Dormition of the Theotokos. (My great-grandmother and her family left for the U.S. a few years after she was born and settled in Dunlo, PA, near Johnstown.)

However, in a recent Slovak census (1991 or so), some 98 percent of the population identify themselves as Orthodox. I can only presume that the church was taken over by the Orthodox (or that the village residents are extremely progressive GCs and wholeheartedly affirm the Zoghby initiative). Does anyone know whether the church has been returned to the Greek Catholics? If so, is it part of the Presov eparchy?

Thanks for your help.

In Christ,
Theophilos

Malcov is a Carpatho-Rusyn village that many Byzantine Carholic and Orthodox Americans trace their family origin. Both St. Mary Byzantine Catholic Church and Christ the Savior Orthodox Greek Catholic Cathedral in Johnstown have many parishioners with Malcov roots, including "Byzanyine Forum's" DJS. Send him a private message and I'm sure he can anwser your question.

Ung-Certez (

Slava na viki!

The "Rusini Slovenska" website has a photo gallery of Malcov, including pictures of a church:

http://www.rusin.sk/fotogaleria/show.php?&malcov

Considering that, in one photo, the church has an analoy with an image of Blessed Paul Gojdic, I'm guessing that it is Greek Catholic.

(But the patronal icon in the iconostas doesn't look like the Dormition, so maybe it's not the same church? *shrugs*)

Dave

I hope that the newly-appointed vicar for Rusyn Greek Catholics of the Prjashev Eparchy will "return" the deacon doors to the ikonostas of each eparchial church. How and why this Latinization began I don't know but I hope it will be stopped! The only Greek Catholic Church in Eastern Slovakia that I visted (during three trips)that had deacon doors was the Kosice Cathedral and I attribute it to Bishop Milan Chautar who is a "vostochnik".

Ung-Certez

Ung--

At least they only lost their doors and not the whole screen. ;-)

How is the lack of deacon doors a "Latinization"?

"Latinization" implies a direct mimicing of the Roman Rite for no other reason than to be more Latin; what Roman practice is being copied by having no deacon doors? Call it an improper practice, or an outright abuse if you must, but I think "Latinization" might be a bit much. (Now, not having an ikonostas, that can be called a Latinization.)

I am very pro-deacon door, by the way.

I would also guess that Fr. Pavel Halko, Rusyn Vicar, has more important things to worry about than deacon doors, and I am not even sure if a Vicar has the authority to demand their return/creation. (What does a vicar do, anyway?)

Dave

Dave, you have to admit it is very "Elko-esque"!
It reminds me of the photo of St. Michael's Church in McAdoo, PA from the 1950's. They kept the screen and arch supports but removed the four main icons, Royal and Deacon doors. Send a PM to our friend Lemko Rusyn and he'll show the photo.
If Bp. Elko was around at the time of the Synod of Zamosc, they would have made him a Cardinal!

Ung-Certez

I stand corrected, the photo was from St. Mary Church in Hazelton, PA. My bad.

Ung-Certez

I don't have to admit anything!

Bishop Elko gets (rightly) blamed for a lot; I don't think we need to make the association between him and no deacon doors in Staryj Kraj.

I've been to the Hazelton church, so there is no need for Lemko Rusyn to send me anything.

I went back to Rusin.sk to look at pictures of churches with deacon door-less iconostases. I really wanted to see if I'd get an Elko-esque vibe. I don't know about you, but when I see something like this:

http://www.rusin.sk/pics/fotogaleria/sura/hrabske/05.jpg

Or, this:

http://www.rusin.sk/pics/fotogaleria/holent/dobroslava/01.jpg

Or even something more recent, like this:

http://www.rusin.sk/pics/fotogaleria/holent/vysna_jedlova/01.jpg

(Woops, that one's Pravoslavnyj!)

..."Elko-esque" is NOT my first reaction.

When I hear "Elko-esque" I think of a 60's style church with (maybe!) a metal ikonostas, dated iconography, and the de rigeur bronze/brass baldachino that looks like it might double as an exhaust fan in a warehouse. :p Oh, I almost forgot: little metal crosses need to be on every possible point of the aforementioned appointments.

Bad taste was not limited to Bishop Elko; there are Orthodox churches that are just as "unique"!

And this post has nothing to do with Malcov! Sorry!

Dave

I have another theory that says alien beings landed in Karpatska-Rus'(they found the Rusyn language intriguing) and liked Deacon doors so much that they "beamed" sets of deacon doors from most Greek Catholic churches in Eastern Slovakia (somehow they didn't disturb the Orthodox Churches' deacon doors) to their home planet!

But all kidding aside, what is the rationale in removing Deacon doors from Icon screens??

Ung-Certez WE ARE BORG, YOUR DEACON DOORS WILL BE ELIMANATED! RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!

While I respect your theory , here are mine:

It became practice among Rusyns to keep all the doors of the ikonostas open during services. Deacon doors were seen as unneeded.

OR

Some priest in some village had a lack of servers and decided that, rather than have to worry about opening and shutting doors, he just wouldn't install them.

OR

Some village couldn't afford deacon doors, and the practice stuck.

I wonder how many churches had deacon doors and removed them, and how many just never installed them.

Dave

If that's the case, then you would think a parallel scenario would be happening among the Rusyn Orthodox Churches of Eastern Slovakia. I do believe it is a modern aberration (aberration=Latination by not conforming to an Eastern Christian standard).

"The (deacon) doors, the doors, in wisdom let us be attentive"!

Ung-Certez

The last photo I posted is of an Orthodox Church, and the iconostas looks new. There are no deacon doors. I'm not saying it is common among the Orthodox there (heck, I've never been there!) but the photos seem to suggest that it is not unknown (although probably not prevalent).

This is really an interesting topic (at least for liturgical dorks like me)! I wish there was just a book out there like "Deacon Doors in the Practice of the Church of Subcarpathian Rus."

You jest about "The (deacon) doors, the doors" but there is an ACROD church out there that would leave all the iconostas doors open for the first part of the Liturgy, and then close the deacon doors when the priest says "The doors, the doors!"

Our people, I tell ya...

Dave

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Thank you for the information, and especially for the link to the pictures. Now I just need to work on my Slovak and Rusyn... and my Hungarian.

In Christ,
Theophilos

Theophilus:

In reading your posting of March 15, 2005 recently (the beginning of June, 2011), I may have found an interesting connection. My paternal grandmother - Mary Petro Single (my grandfather's family name might possibly be recorded as Singel)- had a sister who married a Kovalich. The Kovalich family homestead was a few hundred feet up the county road from my grandparents' home in the hamlet with a post office named Llanfair.

Dunlo/Llanfair is approximately 15-20 miles from Johnstown, PA. If I remember the genealogy correctly, a Kovalich daughter (Mary) married Al Soltes and had a daughter Rosemary and a son Joseph.

Three of my paternal aunts lived in Johnstown during their adult lives.

I mention all of the above based on the common thread of Malcov. If you wish to pursue the Dunlo/Llanfair connection further, please communicate with me. My E-mail address is juanuno1179@att.net. I also asked the adminstrator of the Byzatine Forum website to forward an E-mail to you.

Thanks.