www.byzcath.org Forums Who are EC's evangelizing?

Dear Friends,

My understanding of "evangelization" is that we bring the Gospel to: a) those who have never heard of it and b) those who need to hear it again as they seem to have forgotten about it.

In North America, is it fair to say that the "Byzantine Catholic Gospel" or also, "the Orthodox Gospel" is also legitimately to be applied to Western Christians (not necessarily deliberately on our part) who may feel that there are aspects to it that answer their spiritual needs BETTER than Western Catholicism or Protestantism?

Is that also "Evangelization" because these people are already Christians?

Alex

Alex,
You make some very good points. In order to evangelize effectively, the church needs to target a group that it thinks would be receptive to Byzantine Christianity and pursue them passionately. There's a documentary called, "Mine Eyes Have Seen the Glory", in which the producer traveled around the country exploring different faith communities. One of these communities was a "mega church" outside of Chicago. The pastor built it from the ground up, by studying what fallen-away Christians wanted in a church, then making a church tailored specifically to their desires.
Byzantines have a very ancient, advanced theology, which isn't meant for everyone. To paraphrase St. Paul, some are on milk, others are on solid food. I think Byzantines need to target perhaps Roman Catholics, Anglicans, or other old faiths.
Or, you can target the masses and try to build "mega churches", in which case you may have to be more accomodating to what the masses want.

The answer to me appears quite simple: Anyone who will listen.

(assuming Rome will give us some breathing room, independence and allow us to have a real ecclesiastical identity... )

I hope we are going to approach the large number of disaffected ECUSA members.

Dan L

Huh Roman Catholics? Isn't that like robbing from you left hand hand to give to your left?
The RC shouldn't be evangelizing practicing Byzantine Catholics and likewise neither should the BC evangelize practicing RC's.
The lone exception would be the BC evangelzing fallen away catholics. The Byzantine church is in great postion to evangelize as many people are interested in eastern spirituality and teh Byzanitine church can give them that in a Christian context. It's mysterious and different from of christianity that most american aren't aware of. I think evangelzing Epsicopalinas wouold be more fruitful route than evangelizing your western brethren.

I'd agree with Tobit against Wolfgang that converting Roman Catholics who are practicing their faith would be somewhat odd. However, everyone else including lapsed Catholics should be treated as unchurched and in need of Jesus' saving grace so...go get 'em.

*shrugs* So what if they dont? Do it anyways. I mean I'm a Roman Catholic and all and I believe in the Roman jurdistiction and yadda yadda yadda. But the fact of the matter is, I dont think converting people to any rite of the Catholic Church is bad and with the Roman Catholic Church in America in such a state you may as well. I mean since Vatican II everybody has done pretty much whatever the hell they wanted anyway. If you're going to join 'em it may as well be for the right cause. I mean and so if you convert lots of Protestants whats Rome going to do? Excommunicate you? Somehow I dont think thats a possibility.

Myles, I don't disagree and my reference was cryptic. I guess I should have been a bit more specific.

It makes the job much easier if we could pick our own bishops of our own rite (and right). The Council and other documents say we should be ourselves, regain our authentic traditions and practices, etc.

In the case of the Russian Catholics, they haven't had a bishop appointed by Rome (who retains that power) since Andrei Katkoff who died in 1995. That's only the most recent case. If you can find me any Latin diocese vacant for that long without a standing bishop appointed by Rome I'd be interested.

Being ecclesiastically empowered to evangelize certainly helps, especially to ordain priests, give faculties, etc.

But even with that bruhaha I stand by my first response and still say we work with anyone who will listen. If we grow, we will have to be dealt with.

Evangelizing fellow Catholics, whether lapsed or non-practising, is plain WRONG!

It goes to show that:

1. We don't respect each other. What ever happened to the evangelization program of the USCCB, which included the Eastern Catholic bishops in its formulation? (By the way, the Most Reverend Nicholas J. Samra, Greek-Melkite Auxiliary Bishop of Newton, is the current representative of Eastern Catholics in the Evangelization Committee of the USCCB.)

2. We are not confident in approaching the truly unchurched, the protestants, and people of other confessions. Are you, BCs, suffering from what?

3. If BCs are allowed to target RCs for their "evangelization," what should prevent RCs from "evangelizing" BCs? (You are treading on dangerous grounds! The RC in the U.S. has the tools and the organization to do just that, if ever this is the way you want it to be. )

Your concept of "evangelization" just goes against the normal RC grain of thought.

Amado

I don't know... I'm afraid for some Latins right now. There is what seems like an underground movement in the Latin Church to "convert" Latins from the Novus Ordo to the Tridentine Rite -- to, in effect, restore the old Mass and get rid of the new. These "traditionalists" cite canon law and are heavy on the Council of Trent to try to discredit the Novus Ordo Mass, and I've even read a thread on a bb by a guy who said "The Novus Ordo is Offensive to God" and described it as rancid meat rotting the Church.
Anyway, these "traditionalists" are usually affiliated with the Lafavbrites or the "Society of St. Pius X", which I think is considered to by schismatic by Rome, and if not, it certainly should be (my opinion). I find that it's the "traditionalists" who are really the rancid meat. They work to convince good, faithful Latins that their worship is false and a lie, and "offensive" to God, which is just nonsense.

My point? I don't think we should necessarily try to "convert" Latins, but we must instruct them about the Eastern Churches. I saw a great display in the John J. Heinz History Center (local Pittsburgh/Western PA history center) where they were talking about immigration and showed 2 rooms from 2 houses that were run/owned by Eastern Europeans. One was Roman Catholic and had a cross and pictures of the Sacred Heart, etc, the next was Carpatho-Russian, with icons and even old vestments (it was set up for a funeral). But even in Pittsburgh, where Latins and Byzantines live side by side, the Latins still are ignorant of their sister Churches (they know "pierogi" are "pierohy" and that the Ukrainains make lovely Easter eggs).

There's nothing wrong in "educating" us, Roman Catholics, about the Eastern Catholic Churches.

We are on the same boat, aren't we?

But to "evangelize" us is a bit over the stretch!
We read and use the same Gospels, don't we?

Amado

Evangelize Roman Catholics? I think not.

For all of those we encounter who may have fallen away from practice or belief we should first of all reintroduce them to the love of Christ and send them to the parish of their own tradition. In this we should also maintain good relations with RC priests who may appreciate our efforts and reciprocate. We should really get to know all of the local RC pastors well.

The fact is (provided there are good working relationships between us) RC will find their way to Eastern parishes in abundance on their own and may appreciate the opportunity to make a pilgrimage to an Eastern parish occasionally. Some people will, completely on their own, desire to immerse themselves in Eastern Christian spirituality and join the parish. These visitors should not be discouraged but I don't think we should go out looking for them.

The focus should be on evangelizing Protestants and non-Christians (who together are the majority of our neighbors). Unless we can preach the Gospel affectively to these people we have no compelling argument for our own existence.

Michael

Dear Michael,

I agree with this...whether you are speaking about Byzantine Catholics OR Orthodox doing the evangelizing.

On the other hand, I have met many Latin Catholics in my church (married to Orthodox) and when I tell them that there is a Byzantine rite church in communion with the Pope they are shocked. When I tell them that the local Byzantine Catholic Church is on such and such street-- a main thoroughfare, (which has a sign clearly stating that it is such),they (as well as Orthodox) say: " Oh you mean that Russian Church?"

I think that evangelizing is one thing and educating is another. I am all for educating ALL Christians about the existence of your church.

In Christ,
Alice

P.S. Love your avatar Michael--so THAT'S what you look like!

Amado, perhaps you've forgotten in your righteous indignation the years and generations of targeted efforts by the RC clergy on BCs. Don't tell me it didn't happen, I have seen first hand results. And it was precisely and surgically targeted.

Entire BC parishes were often robbed of the next generation of kids because of their attendance at RC schools and the basic forced policies that they received tuition breaks for being parishoners of the RC parish and other such nonsense.

Only three years ago I was contacted by the local RC judicial vicar about a child who was forced to attend a confirmation class. He was a Melkite kid.

The father of this child had protested to the pastor, was ignored and told "all the other kids are doing it", and thank God he called the judicial vicar who called me (he didn't even know it wasn't the right thing to do until I reminded him of both his and our canons on that issue).

Re-confirmations of kids attending RC schools, re-First Communions of same, on and on. Let's call a spade a spade.

We are not the ones who are insecure. Our doors are open. That is the bottom line.

We are not "targeting" anyone, as had been done to our people by the RCs blatantly in the past. We have a beautiful liturgical tradition and an open door policy.

If ANYONE wants to come in, experience our liturgy and listen, whether RC, Protestant, an alien from Galaxy XZQ-761, whomever, come on in.

No "targeted audiences", only open doors.

Dear SubDeacon Randy:

I am talking about this developing evangelization strategy that some BCs are touting in this Forum, which could become "policy" to be implemented first by the Anunciation parish of Fr. Tom Loya and CDL.

The examples you have cited showing the ignorance of certain RC priests, notwithstanding, these do not represent the official policy of the Catholic Church in the U.S.

Because of the above transgressions, these erring RC priests and their ilk should be made the first target of your education about the Eastern Catholic Churches.

But to assert, as some have done here, even if tongue in cheek, that the BCs should target RCs for evangelization is misplaced in these discussions.

Amado