www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship The Kliros Byzantine Hymnal?

I was wondering if anyone has ever thought of compiling a Byzantine Hymnal?
I happened to visit a Melkite Rite church a couple of weeks ago and loved a communion hymn they sang. I thought it would be nice to sing it also in a Ruthenian church.

Many years ago (like around 1955, perhaps) the Albanian Orthodox Archdiocese published a book with that title - it consists of various pieces, mostly for the Divine Liturgy, in Byzantine chant (meaning the sort of liturgical music one might here in Greek or Melkite parishes). The texts in that Byzantine Hymnal are all in English, translated by the late Archbishop Fan (Theophanes) Noli, who was a very active translator of liturgical texts and an early enthusiast of the use of English in the services. The Albanian Archdiocese is part of the OCA, so the address in Boston should be available; it may be that they still have a few copies for sale.

The Melkite Archdiocese of Newton has published various settings of liturgical texts in English set to Byzantine chant.

Incognitus

Incognitus

How would I get a hold of that?

Is it on the Eparcy of Newton's bookstore website?

Dear Wulfgang,

If you mean metrical hymns that rhyme in the protestant and modern Roman Catholic styles, it is not a good idea. It is a latinization. It started when Byzantines heard Polish pilgrims singing a Mariopoc, and they started borrowing their tunes and translating their hymns. (eg. latinization)

The Byzantine Church has hymnals! The eight tones (oktoich), the menaion, pentecostarion and triodion are the hymnals of the Church, and they contain art of unsurpassed beauty.

They should be sung at Vespers and Matins. I think people want 'hymns' to sing, either before or after (even during!) the Divine Liturgy, because they haven't celebrated these Offices, and they feel something is missing, that they want to pray more. Even if the offices can't be celebrated for some reason, the people can take hymns from these books.

I suppose that these new hymns are not harmful in themselves, unless they begin to substitute for the Offices that are not being celebrated.

In short, NO to introducing hymns and hymnals until the Byzantine Church has exhausted its own treasure store first. (...it's not happening)

Nick

Oh, yes, metrical hymns that rhyme are not a good idea... *looks at the Akathist Hymn to the Mother of God in Greek*

Now, when did the inhabitants of Byzantium ever go to Mariapocs and interact with Polish pilgrims? That would be something!

Dave

Never having seen the Eparchy of Newton's web site, I don't know what's on it. But it would be a good place to start looking. Most Melkite priests in the USA would probably know the book I was referring to - it contains the more-or-less standard musical settings used in English in the Eparchy of Newton.

Incidentally, for those interested in translations of Byzantine liturgical poetry into English metre suitable for singing to existing English hymn tunes, John Mason Neale did a nice collection called, I believe, Hymns of the Eastern Churches.

As for metrical singing not succeeding in our tradition - anyone who says that is clearly unacquainted with Byzantine chant.

Incognitus

There was a "Melkite Hymnal" compiled by Archimandrite Cyril Haddad; it is a great resource, but no longer available. It might be possible to procure a copy from a Melkite parish, though.

Dave

A book is almost finished by several priests, cantors and such out of the UGC Eparchy of Edmonton. It is full of traditional (Ukrainian/slavic) church songs and carols. It is a thick book too according to the draft.

It does have everything in English, Ukrainian and translitteration. So for those who are not interested in the Ukr. it may not suit perfectly. However it could be used as a sourse for some songs.

I will let you know when it is available for sale. Perhaps it may be ready before the Nativity this year (if we are lucky).

Let me know if you would like more info on this book by PMing me.

Kadylo

Agreed! My statement was specific, about protestant and modern Roman Catholic styles of hymn singing.

Nick

Dear Nick,
We are in full agreement. Our Church has not the slightest need of protestant and/or Roman Catholic styles of church singing. Vivat Byzantium!

Incognitus

The Noli Hymnal is at
http://english.shqiptarortodoks.com/texts/liturgical/byzantine-hymnal.pdf
Lou

I believe Wolfgang's innocent question touched another nerve in the "living tradition" of our Byzantine Catholic Churches in America. As I see it these are some of the relevant points:

1] Somehow we need to find a way to utilize the spiritual patrimony of the hymns of Vespers and Matins in meeting the spiritual needs of folks in the 21st century.

The most straightforward route would be the restoration of Vespers and Matins in our parishes, and much has and continues to be done towards that goal. But as any who are involved in those efforts would confirm, it is a difficult task with many potential problems.

I remain intrigued by the possibility that there might be other ways of helping folks tap into the spiritual resources of these hymns, but hope that they would all be supportive of rather than competing with the "living theology" that results from the use of these hymns in worship.

2] Part of our spiritual inheritance is also a rather extensive collection of "non-liturgical" hymns, which were especially popular in the last 100 years of parish life in North America [which is the operational extent of most parishioners' understanding of "our tradition."]

The unfortunate reality is that these "para-liturgical" hymns are seen, rightly in my view, as competing with the "liturgical hymns" for the limited amount of parish worship time we can realistically expect at this time and place.

When a Cantor [and pastor!] have the opportunity to choose what can be sung to "cover a liturgical action" [such as communion time or theoretically at least during processions] or to provide a prayerful atmosphere [as was traditionally done before and after Liturgies] should one choose from the repertoire of para-liturgical hymns which are beloved and usually known by significant numbers of the faithful, or should one choose from the liturgical hymns which many feel we need to restore to our parish life, but which are perceived as something new and strange by most parishioners, or ...?

I was at a United Methodist Church Easter service this year. I cracked open their hymnal and I was surprised to find a few pages of Byzantine hymns in it... that was rather bizarre. They also had some St. John Damascene hymns set to meter by John Mason Neale, with the type of music one would expect at a Methodist church. Also odd.

Is anyone (other than me) aware that it is possible to sing the Cherubikon in English to the tune of "The Old Rugged Cross"? Not that I'd recommend it...

[quote=sielos ilgesys]Is anyone (other than me) aware that it is possible to sing the Cherubikon in English to the tune of "The Old Rugged Cross"? Not that I'd recommend it... [/quote]

Admins, suppress this post immediately before [i]they[/i] get ideas!