www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship The Kliros Ruthenian setting for "Eis Polla Eti Despota!"

I agree, to a point. The Ruthenian practice translated "Eis polla eti Despota" as "Na mnohaja l'ita Vladyko" and there is a great amount of wisdom to that. So many people in the non-Greek speaking Orthodox world know to sing "Eis polla" for a bishop, but have NO clue what it means. I know tons of people who think that it is "Russian"!

Now, I do have a copy of a 1906 Sbornik from Ungvar. In the Divine Liturgy, before "Vidichom svit istinnyj" where you normally find "Na mnohaja l'ita Vladyko" in Ruthenian books, it has (in Cyrillic) "Eis polla eti Despota" followed by "Na mnoha l'ita Vladyko". I am not sure why the Greek is present in this edition, but it is interesting to see that it was not totally unknown among "our people" (at least those who published the book!).

Now, I said this in the thread which Adam made reference to and I will say it again: "Vos^el Jesi" and "Ton Despotin" are two TOTALLY different things and serve different purposes. "Vos^el jesi" is an entrance hymn for a bishop. "Ton Despotin" is not an entrance hymn; it is sung as an acclamation asking God to bless the hierarch with many years. Normally it is sung as the bishop blesses the people. So, to say "We sing Vos^el jesi and you sing Ton Despotin" would be innacurate. The Ruthenians may use a vernacular version of asking God to bless the bishop with many years, but it is not "Vos^el jesi."

Tony does make a good point about preserving the Greek Trisagion but not having "Ton Despotin." I wonder when the multiple "Eis polla"s and "Ton Despotin"s were included in the other Byzantine usages. Maybe Fr. Mark can enlighten us to the Old Rite practice?

All these questions lead us to the ultimate question of the origins of the unique Ruthenian pontifical celebration of the Divine Liturgy. Maybe one day we'll find that old dusty manuscript that answers all our questions...

Dave

If we are talking about usage based solely on tradition, Vosel' Jesi is a relative latecomer based on the Latin entrance of the bishop and while it is a nice hymn it likely did not exist much before the 16-17 century. Ton Despotin on the other hand is descended from the usage of the Great Church (Hagia Sophia).

There are several settings of Ton Despotin that can be easily obtained. There are not too many settings of Ton Despotin known amongst the Ruthenians because it was basically lost when the Vosel' Jesi replaced it.

Someone asked about the Ukrainains, they continue to use Ton Despotin for the entrance of the bishop as it is in the Archieraticon but it has fallen into disuse in many places. Mnohaja Lita is indicated for the responses with the blessing of the trikery/dikery, and Eis Polla Eti Despota (in Cyrillic, interestingly enough) is specifically indicated to be taken after the Gospel. None of these have been translated into English at least for common parish usage.

I don't understand the very American notion that every liturgical hymn needs to be translated into English. I can sympathize with the need for vernacular liturgical translations. But there is nothing wrong with keeping a few in the mother language to remind us of our ecclesiastical patrimony, especially for hierarchal services. Ton Despotin, Eis Polla Eti, and Mnohaja Lita are some examples.

So it seems perhaps some Greek vestiges of the Eis Polla were present at least in the service books at the turn of the last century. My 1903 Izbornik from Ungvar is similar to that described above.

Looking at the general extant Ruthenian pontifical pew books from the Kocisko-Dolinay eras I have not seen one pew book that had Eis Polla Eti in Greek. Most of these did have Mnohaja Lita and Vosel' Jesi, but no Ton Despotin or even Eis Polla Eti after the Gospel.

XB!

I can't speak about the Pittsburgh Metropolia, but I have noticed a certain phobia among some to using small amounts of Slavonic. They think that one line or one hymn or something immediately means we're going back to the days of complete Slavonic liturgies. I am all for the vernacular but I am also totally in favor of including pieces in other languages, especially "ancestral languages," most especially when people already know certain pieces. What's wrong with a little Slavonic here and there? As per this thread, if our people retained "Agios o Theos" for the bishop, why can't we retain a "Svjatyj Boz^e" or the like? I even look at those outside the Byzantine world: the Taize Community in France is over there singing Bohorodice D'ivo and Slava Tebi Boz^e, so why can't we sing them in our churches? School concerts make kids learn songs in French and Hebrew and German, but God forbid we try and learn something in Slavonic!

This was a hot-button issue for me recently. A few times during the Great Fast, when I would lead the singing, I sandwiched a "Preterpivyj" between two "Having suffered"s. I only did this when there was a certain demographic for the service (mainly older people who grew up with Slavonic in general and this hymn in particular). I had several of the older generation sing along and come to me after and thank me profusely. They found it beautiful and touching. "I haven't heard that in years!" was a common line. Yet my priest told me after Lent that he didn't like me singing it in Slavonic... not "American" or something. But I ask, "What is American?" Does America mean losing one's heritage, culture and history? Does the dream of an "American Church" mean losing all of one's past?

This was a rather haphazard post/rant and I apologize in advance. This is just an issue that has been bugging me since the Great Fast and I had to let it out.

S'Bohom!

Dave

Not only Preterpivj, but anyone that has heard one of the beautiful Znamenny, Kyivan or Prostopinje settings of Da Ispravitsja (Let My Prayer Ascend) at the Presanctified Liturgy knows how moving and beautiful it is in Slavonic. Why not sing it once in Slavonic at Presanctified? I think everyone would live through it.

Dave,

XB!

In that Izbornik is that liturgy specified as Hierarchical? As you note Ruthenian books usually have "Na mnohaja l'ita Vladyko" for all liturgies in Slavonic and the last "official" prew books out of Pittsburgh that are bi-lingual reflect that. It is usually not present in English.

Tony

BB!

Hi Tony,

I should have been more specific. It is not an Hierarchical Liturgy, just (for lack of a better term) a "regular" one. However, the fact that they included "Eis polla" before the typical Ruthenian inclusion of "Na mnohaja" is interesting. It is also interesting in this edition that "Da ispolnjatsja" is rendered in the Russian manner ("sobl'udi nas Boz^e") instead of the Ruthenian manner ("utverdi nas Boz^e"). I have never checked the other usual "divergent texts" though... maybe I'll do that tonight. It's so nice to be done with homework for the semester so I can waste my time with all this stuff.

Dave

If anyone had trouble with the link to "Ton Despotin" please go to the following page:

http://htc.faithweb.com/ton.html

My 1903 Izbornik specifically states (my translation into English) in the notes "hierarchal liturgy only" for those parts such as "Mnohaja Lita" at the blessing by the bishop with dikery and trikery and the indication of "Eis polla eti Despota" after the Gospel.

It's interesting how "Eis polla eti" fell out of use and liturgical texts (specifically pew books) in the Ruthenian usage after the early 20th century when they were clearly present earlier, but stayed in some others such as in the Ukrainian pew versions of the hierarchal Divine Liturgy. Yet another thesis topic for some armchair liturgists...

Just what would people regard as the best translation of "Eis Polla Eti Despota" in conventional English (as opposed to Elizabethan)?

1. I am unaware of a Ruthenian setting for "Eis Polla Eti Despota". When I have sung it in Greek I have used the very simple setting used by the Greeks.

2. In English, I have used the translation �Many years, O Master� in a simple setting. This past week we sung it at a hierarchical Divine Liturgy in the Archeparchy of Pittsburgh. In the key of D-Maj the words �Many years� were sung on a �D�, �O� on a �F#�, �Ma-� on an E and �ster� back on a �D�. Then, after a slight pause into �Christ is Risen� (D-E-F#-E, etc.). [According to the Ruthenian custom during Pascha the "Many years, O Master" is followed by the singing of "Christ is Risen".]

Jim, I have also not sung Ton Despotin or Eis Polla Eti in anything except Greek. I sing "Eis polla eti Despota" after the Gospel in simple Greek or Kyivan chant.

"Ton Despotin" has many settings. I have only sung the Greek, Melkite and Kyivan/Lysytsyn settings, three out of many, and find the Melkite and Greek the simplest and the Lysytsyn the nicest. I have heard but not sung a very nice Serbian setting of Ton Despotin also.

If you are interested in music, you can find one fairly common and simple setting of Ton Despotin from St. Michael's (ACROD) website at http://www.saintmichaels.info/music/pdfs/Ton-Despotin.pdf This site also has three different settings of Eis Polla Eti at http://www.saintmichaels.info/music/pdfs/Eis-Polla-1-2-3.pdf

I usually use the #3 setting and find it to be the simplest to teach for congregational singing but all three are quite simple.

The St. Michael's ACROD site also has a Bortnyansky setting of Eis Polla Eti Despota for trio at http://www.saintmichaels.info/music/pdfs/Eis-Polla-Eti-Trio.pdf

You can find another setting of both Ton Despotin and Eis Polla Eti Despota in Greek chant in modern notation in pdf format at http://sgpm.goarch.org/e_services/Music/MW-Episcopal.pdf If you want to get fancy and sing it with an eison this music will work for the eison on G for the Eis Polla Eti.

Alexei Lvov has a very nice choral setting of Ton Despotin as well.

Thanks for all the websites. The Binghamton versions of Eis Polla Eti Dhespota are the ones used here by the OCA, I believe.

Does anyone happen to know a web location to download a simple setting of "You have entered, O noble Archpriest"?

I'd also like to locate a copy of "Na mnohaja l'ita Vladyko".