www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy The Revised Divine Liturgy New Liturgy Books on Order--Fresh Start

So.

When do the presses roll? Have they rolled? Does anyone here know? Can you tell us?

Eli

Glory to Jesus Christ!

The only people with this information (at least, to the best of my knowledge) would be the four members of the Council of Hierarchs. When they publish this information, we will all learn it at the same time.

Prof. J. Michael Thompson
Byzantine Catholic Seminary
Pittsburgh, PA

That is very helpful, Professor Thompson. Thank you. Do you know if Bishop John initiated the catechetical work on the liturgy, unilaterally, or was this planned, to begin in Parma?

Eli

Glory to Jesus Christ!

The catechesis that is going on in the Eparchy of Parma was designed by the Eparchy on its own, not in conjunction with any other program of the Metropolia. A leaflet was sent out from the Eparchy of Parma to each one of its parishes with a schedule of events. I am not in Pittsburgh at the present time, so I cannot access the leaflet, but (if memory serves me correctly), there was an informational meeting in each of the Syncelletes (sic?) of the Eparchy. I apologize if my facts are not exact.

In the Archeparchy of Pittsburgh, the workshop for Catechists (scheduled for Saturday, August 12, 2006) held by the Office or Religious Education of the Archeparchy, is themed around introducing catechists to the new Liturgikon and the Faithful's Book, though this will be done without having copies of either book in the hands of the catechists. The two presenters are Fr. David Petras and myself. This is open to anyone working in ECF work in the Archeparchy. For more information, please contact Sr. Marion Dobos, OSB, the director of the ORE. You can find that information (the phone number of the ORE, etc.) on the Archeparchial website.

Prof. J. Michael Thompson
Byzantine Catholic Seminary
Pittsburgh, PA

Thank you again. Can you help with answers to any of these other questions? If you cannot that is fine.

What is going to happen to parishes who have no catechists? or no catechists who can attend the workshops?

Also it seems that the laity are going to be schooled in the new books and music before the priests of the eparchy? Even in Parma it seems as though there's not been anything in particular being done with the clergy first.

How rapidly, once the books are distributed throughout the Metropolia, is it expected that the entire Metropolia will be faithfully following text and music?

Do the bishops anticipate a staggered kind of adoption and a certain amount of initial adaptation?

Eli

Glory to Jesus Christ!

First of all, I would like to correct what I posted about the Parma program entitled "Heaven On Earth." This program is an interactive drama written by the Very Rev. Fr. Thomas Loya. It constists of a priest, a deacon, a cantor, and two narrators, and describes the basic liturgical structure of the Byzantine Divine Liturgy. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the new Liturgikon or Faithful's Book, and I am sorry for having misled anyone with my previous posting.

In regard to actual training in the Metropolia:

(1) Pittsburgh, Parma, and Van Nuys have all had sessions about the Liturgikon at their respective Clergy Days in 2005. That included receiving a photocopy of the then-current (but not final) form of the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom (which has since been published by Fr. Kelleher in his book.

The Council of Hierarchs has not published anything as of yet which gives parameters about the introduction of the text and music. We will all be learning about this at the same time, I'm certain, and I'm just as interested as the next person in knowing the particulars.

Please, again let me apologize for not having gotteh the facts about the Parma program before posting.

Prof. J. Michael Thompson
Byzantine Catholic Seminary
Pittsburgh, PA

It definitely looks as if this New Liturgy will happen sooner rather than later if faxes are flying around asking how many books priests want to order for their parishes.

The cost of just the books for this new liturgy is interesting. I posted some of this in the now closed thread (New Liturgy Books on Order - Take 2) and have posted here again on Take 3 of this thread.

The 2005 stats for the world's Eastern Rite Catholics says that in the US our rite has 99381 members. Now we've all been told that the reason why it was reproted that we had 268,161 people 15 years ago and now we have 99,381 is that the past numbers were bogus and the current number is good. I'm sure that if we see another 50%-60% decrease in the next 15 years that the 'good' numbers will also be called bogus but that's for another day.

So:
$12.50 * 99,381 = $1,242,262.5

I have the windows closed and the AC on, but I can still here the howls of "Not every person attends every week, small children can't read, they won't order that many.

OK (1/2 of membership)

$12.50 * 49690.5 = $621,131.25

Wait, I hear it again "That's not a good number either, you can't have half a person!

OK (1/4 of membership)

$12.50 * 24,845.25 = $310,565.625


So to recap if the parishes purchased 100% the number of books for number of members

$1,242,262.5


If the parishes purchased 50% the number of books for the number of members:

$621,131.25

If the parishes purchased 25% the number of books for the number of members:

$310,565.625

Is 1/4 of membership too high or too low?

you could do a lot of evangelizing with even $300,000+.

Now this is just books. Plus there is shipping costs. There are other costs of course as well throughout this whole process. Plus, how do you put a price on the time that was spent by very well educated men that could have otherwise been spent on evangelization?

I ask this not as rhetorical question but as a real question. Wouldn't it be better for many of our parishes who may have say 40-80 people attending every Sunday (but the people are mostly older), be better off using this money for evangelizing and trying to bring in new and younger people to ensure that 15 years down the road there are just as many if not more people attending liturgy every Sunday?

Does anyone who can think for themselves really believe that the New Liturgy is going to grow our church for the next 10-15 years?

There are actually many more questions that seem obvious as well, but, unfortunately, I am tending to believe what Helen posted the other day, that this New Liturgy is more about reasons other than translations, inclusive language, and authentic Liturgy. Truly a shame.

Monomakh

So those who have shares in the companies involved in the preparation of these books are going to score a nice dividend this financial year. Is that what you are saying?

It is either that or the parishes are going to be making an investment that might not bring in a return. If for some reason the new books are not promulgated, yet are printed will mean that a lot of money has been expended and the ones that will lose is the Church as a whole.

Time will tell not matter what the case.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

I don't think that even this project by itself is sufficient for a business to be profitable ongoing. Whoever the publisher is to be is publishing lots of other stuff ongoing, I'm sure. For them this will be one more contract, although an important one no doubt. And fot them to print a large edition will require some sort of committment from the church even if there has been no "official promulgation". Just my hunch.

I called a local printing company in Binghamton, NY, recently to see about getting 100 copies of the Vespers book reprinted for the MCI. They told me they really didn't do press runs of less than 50,000 copies, or they'd lose money on setup and overhead costs. However many may get printed by the Metropolia, I doubt a huge proft is to be made.

The larger the number the higher the profit. Printing companies are no longer in business to loose money. Some of them learned hard lessons over the years being accommodating to the consumer, and no longer exist. I have been close to the printing business for years. They tend to pay their managers and executives quite nicely and if there is a union, then their employees do much better than their non-union counterparts. It's a good business to be in.

But that has no bearing on the promulgation of an expensive set of texts and pew books whose life-span, as has been suggested by Father David himself, is limited. It has been suggested, even if only by allusion, that this is just an interim translation that will be improved upon yet again in time as the Church grows. This is why we need not worry much about this particular iteration, I guess.

I have NEVER heard a liturgical translation spoken of in that manner before.

I think that is what is of concern. Not whether or not the printers make money on it...this time.

Eli

Am I the only one who saw the 'wink' in Pavel Ivanovich's post. I read his post to say that he was making a joke about buying stock in the printing company.

Nowhere else did I see anyone writing about people making a profit.

Monomakh post actually was pointing out that the money being spent on these books could be spent to grow our churches through evangelization instead of dividing them with the new liturgy, and I agree with that.

mc

Ah, the joys of sweet innocence! There are publishing companies quietly making . . . well, I'll skip the superlatives . . . money off those disposable missalettes and disposable hymn sheets so popular in so many RC churches these days. Go figure: put a hymn-book in the pew and it will probably last about 20 years. Put a disposable piece of paper in the same pew and consider yourself lucky if lasts for one service.

Now which do you think makes more money for the printers in the long run?

Fr Serge

In fact, many of our parishes in the Pittsburgh Metropolia seem to be using disposable service materials right now, due to the lack of texts and music available in a single place.

Yours in Christ,
Jeff Mierzejewski