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Mar 25th, 2025
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 856
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John,
As promised, see my answer under "'New' liturgical music for the Divine Liturgy."
Yours in Christ,
Jeff Mierzejewski
P.S. I promise to defer the discussion of changeable texts per se, but must continue to advert to situations where our settings of melodies for the Divine Liturgy affect the singing of the same melodies at Vespers and Matins, or vice versa.
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 190
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I reviewed the whole new litergy. Here is how I see it.
The Litany is changed and has a great new addition and inclusion of the Theotokos, the second half is very simular to our present format and worship. They improved the Creed with the exclusion of the Holy Spirt not of the Father and Son but of the Father only. The flow of the liturgy is the same.
So my vote is confidence in the high patriarchy and their decisions in these changes. I am excited to get it going in our church!
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 564
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Dear Stivvy,
What of the deletions of the 2nd and third verses of the antiphons? What of the "for us and for our salvation?" What of "lover of us all" for "who loves mankind?" What of the omitted litanies? What of the "Master, Bless?" What of "holy gifts for holy people?"
P.S. I appreciate that you took the time to read it, but I wonder what you think of the aforementioned problems.
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Originally posted by Pseudo-Athanasius:
Dear Stivvy,
What of the deletions of the 2nd and third verses of the antiphons? What of the "for us and for our salvation?" What of "lover of us all" for "who loves mankind?" What of the omitted litanies? What of the "Master, Bless?" What of "holy gifts for holy people?"
P.S. I appreciate that you took the time to read it, but I wonder what you think of the aforementioned problems. Do any of these things actually change church doctrine?
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 187
Orthodoxy or Death
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Orthodoxy or Death
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 187 |
Dear Theist Gal,
It's a shame you don't know the difference between celebrating an abbrivated version of the Divine Liturgy, and a full version. Between the litanies that have been made optional, plus the Antiphons that have been removed, this liturgy will not resemble the liturgy that many parishes have celebrated for years. Mine included.
So, in your eyes, as long as it doesn't monkey with church doctrine, we're o.k.? If the priest asked someone to carry a bowl filled with incense on their head, as long as it didn't monkey with doctrine it would be o.k.?
The reason many of us who understand our tradition are considering becoming Orthodox is because of attitudes like yours. You should challenge your spirituality by visiting an Orthodox Church. During the Liturgy, remind yourself that "ours" should be just like "theirs." Once you have this understanding and experience, I think you'll feel differently. Additionally, you may want to read the Light for Life series to educate yourself a little more.
I'll end with a quote by the esteemed Robert Taft,
"Liturgy is the very mouth of the church, not just its lipstick.�
JMHO, Cathy
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Joined: Jun 2003
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No, I'm no expert in the Divine Liturgy. All I'm saying is that none of the actual changes I've seen so far seem to be worth all the angst and hysteria I've seen on the Forum. Sure, some of them may be a little annoying, and/or take time to get used to, but they hardly involve any bowls of incense on anyone's heads.
And from what I've been told by someone who IS an expert in the Divine Liturgy, there have been changes to the Liturgy in the past, and there will undoubtedly be changes in the future - these changes are definitely not going to be set in stone!
(And by the way, I have actually sung in the choir at an Orthodox Church. Recently. And it's very nice. But I'm still a Catholic. So there. :p )
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,735 Likes: 6
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Originally posted by Theist Gal:
No, I'm no expert in the Divine Liturgy. All I'm saying is that none of the [b]actual changes I've seen so far seem to be worth all the angst and hysteria I've seen on the Forum. Sure, some of them may be a little annoying, and/or take time to get used to, but they hardly involve any bowls of incense on anyone's heads.
And from what I've been told by someone who IS an expert in the Divine Liturgy, there have been changes to the Liturgy in the past, and there will undoubtedly be changes in the future - these changes are definitely not going to be set in stone!
(And by the way, I have actually sung in the choir at an Orthodox Church. Recently. And it's very nice. But I'm still a Catholic. So there. :p ) [/b] I'm sorry, but it is remarks like this that make me realize that there are many who are not even aware of what they are throwing away. This is so sad......  Alexandr
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(sigh) Okay, I don't want to make anyone sad, so I'm officially bowing out of this topic. But before I do, I would just like to say that being rude and patronizing is not going to win a lot of people over to your point of view. Bye! 
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,735 Likes: 6
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Question all,
I'm transposing "On Eagle's Wings" into Prostopenije. Do you think it will sound better in Stichera tone 6 or 8? It could be a substitute for the Cherubimic Hymn. After all, it won't change dogma now, will it?
Alexandr
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564 Likes: 1
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Dear Alexander - I'll bet you think you're joking. I could name a parish where Budi Imia Hospodnie to the tune of "My Bonnie Lies Over the Ocean" is high on the sacred hit parade. And no doubt you've heard Mnohaia L'ita to the tune of "Santa Lucia". There's more where that came from!
Fr. Serge
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Joined: Jul 2006
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You know what's funny... I've read the topic of this post several times, and each time I've mis-read it to be: Protestant revision of your Divine Liturgy! I kept wondering what the Protestants had to do with it? 
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Originally posted by St. Mary of Egypt: You know what's funny...
I've read the topic of this post several times, and each time I've mis-read it to be:
Protestant revision of your Divine Liturgy!
I kept wondering what the Protestants had to do with it? Oh, if you only knew how close you are!!!!  Alexandr
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Orthodoxy or Death
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Orthodoxy or Death
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....and they will stay because the people who know better will head for the hills. And then eventually when all the Byzantine Churches turn into Roman Catholic Churches it will be o.k. because they won't know any better.
Cathy
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Recited Divine Liturgies will soon be a reality in a lot of small parishes(Ruthenian Metropolia), as many do not have cantors and that is a real shame.
Ungcsertezs
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