www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy The Revised Divine Liturgy Is Aliquippa the Model For Implementing the New Liturgy?

And it appears that all the "orthodox" Byzantine Priests are being moved to the hinterlands so that when the "new" liturgy is given to the people, the "orthodox" priests will, well you get the picture.

It is a shame that the younger group of BC's who understand theology will probably leave our church for Orthodoxy once this liturgy is put into place. I'm sorry that so many priests in Passiac are afraid of Bishop Andy. I don't understand why all this nonesense is allowed. What does Bishop Andy have on everyone? How did he get this much power? If he were so astute, why didn't they make him Archbishop?

Dear Pravoslavana,

I'm sorry you have less of a liturgy right now. My parish currently celebrates the Red Book, but the minute the Bishop steps in the church, we're relegated to the chopped-up Pitaki version. I don't know how much longer we'll have the Red Book, but at that moment I'll have a decision to make. I hope our God-loving Bishops rethink the pew book, and give us all the Antiphons and Litanies, marked as optional. Otherwise, I'm afraid my family will head for the door.

JMHO,
Cathy

"If he were so astute, why didn't they make him Archbishop?"

If they did, the doors of the churches would be flying off of the hinges! Must be a little restraint going on somewhere...

Etnick...Pravoslavnych christian.

Not so for me.

I was going to be received into the OCA with confession, reciting the Creed and communion per my bishop.

I elected to receive Chrismation, but it was not considered mandatory for me. I am truly glad that I did.

Michael

I'm curious as to why you weren't chrismated. Two different priests in two different parishes told me the same thing. Reception of converts is done by chrismation. They do not rebaptize however. These are two veteran Orthodox priests, who I assume are following the canons of the church. The research I did before even talking to a priest said the same thing.

How chrismation was an OPTION for you leaves me stunned!
Can you elaborate a little further, either here or with a PM.

Hesychios,
Pardon me for the Freudian slip. I read your post wrong. You were chrismated. But, my question still stands about it being optional. By saying "Chicagiensis" in your profile are you near the Chicago area? If so then Archbishop Job is your bishop as he is also mine. That would rule out different convert reception protocalls by different bishops, if such exists.

Yes you are correct.

Archbishop Job is my bishop, and I attend the cathedral of Holy Trinity.

When I was still a catechumen I was told that I would be received through confession and communion, while my two "classmates" would be Chrismated.

I asked why and it was because of my Roman Catholic confirmation. After several weeks the 'big day' was approaching and we were being prepared. I suggested to my priest that I would rather be Chrismated with the other two. My priest said "fine, I would prefer that too".

That's the story.

BTW, on December 24th it will be one year.

Drifting . . .

In the spirit of getting this thread back on track, does anyone who has preferrably attended or someone who is familiar with St. George's in Aliquippa know if changes have been made or not?

Otherwise, a road trip by someone (even myself) may be in order.

Monomakh

I have to agree with this one word comment two posts up, this is not only drifting but with the exception of the last post of late, is totally off topic. Conversion experiences, while we all like to hear about them, belong in another section. They have nothing to do with the purpose of this section and thread. I remind posters again to stay on topic as has been pointed out in the previous two posts, or I will consider the subject has run its course and be forced to close it.

Let's stay on topic from this point on.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Where is Basil, our Metropolitan, as this controversy swirls? (But then, it may be a controversy only for those of us who pay-the-freight in the Ruthenian Church... for the hierarchy the revisions may be a foregone conclusion.)

Has Basil offered an opinion on these matters? And how about the Eparchs of Parma and Van Nuys?

Surely Basil sees the erosion of our numbers over the last decade or two. Can he stand to loose 10% of the people he has left left, due to the promulgation of the Revised Liturgy? Or even 5%? Or are we in such a tailspin that losses of dues-paying parishioners no longer matters? (If we don't have new priests coming on-line, we can't keep churches open.)

I think Basil is from the Franciscan community at Sybertsville. Hasn't that group been in the vanguard of Liturgical experimentalism for a long time? Alas, perhaps this is the answer to my question.

God save us from ourselves.

I always thought Bishop John of Parma was a good shepherd. I respect him tremendously.

I think it is important to remember the special relationship the Ruthenians have with Roma. It did not come into the communon as a synod, the way the Kyivan church and the Melkites had.

It was a band of priests who came under the obedience of Roma and basically left their bishop behind. Subsequently the (sub-Carpathian) Ruthenian church was controlled by the Latin hierarchy, and even their bishops were suffragens of Latin bishops. The Apostolic succession appears to be derived from western lines, not eastern ones.

All of the hierarchies erected for the sub-Carpathian Ruthenian churches in Europe and North America were elevated by the Vatican on the Popes authority. In doing so (extracting them from control of the local Latin ordinaries) this was an exercise in the Popes Supreme authority over the church.

I don't know how long the office of Major-Archbishop has existed in the Catholic communion, but no sub-Carpathian Ruthenian church anywhere has one. So in short the Metropolia of Pittsburgh is totally dependent upon the Holy See. It is the child of the Vatican.

It doesn't seem to me the bishops of the Metropolia see themselves as leaders of a Sui Iuris church. They certainly do not have a history of prominent, tough talking, independent minded hierarchs in their tradition to give them inspiration, or something to emulate.

Perhaps an abbreviated liturgy with inclusive language is the best one can hope for with a history like that.

Michael

Slava isusu Christu!

Michael -- my brother -- an insightful post.

"So in short the Metropolia of Pittsburgh is totally dependent upon the Holy See. It is the child of the Vatican."

Then, I wonder what our father the Pope thinks about the recasted Divine Liturgy his children have fabricated? Perhaps like Moses when he meandered down Mount Sinai to find the Golden Calf the Hebrews had formed?

In Christ,

John

I thought I read that these changes were being made at least in part with suggestions from somebody in Rome.

Perhaps the Oriental Congregration? I doubt the inclusive language is coming from His Holiness, Benedict XVI.